What are Discrete Degrees

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What are Discrete Degrees?

• Ian Thompson, Physics Dept., University of Surrey
• Talk to the Swedenborg Society
• Spring Meeting, 29th March 2003

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Importance of Discrete Degrees

• A knowledge of discrete degrees is needed for
  understanding the differences between
• the three heavens,
• the love and wisdom of the angels in them,
• the warmth and light that they possess,
• the interior faculties of the mind,
• reformation and regeneration,
• something spiritual and something natural.
  Swedenborg Divine Love and Wisdom, 185

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Our ideas of Discrete Degrees

• The ideas we each have are many and various!
• So the purpose of this talk
• to look at typical ideas often held,
• to clarify any misconceptions,
• to suggest new ways of looking at discrete
  degrees,
• contrast them with continuous degrees.

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Kinds of Explanations we like?

• We are happier with explanations giving
• integrated view of natural and spiritual worlds,
• unified view of a continuous whole no gaps,
• democratic rather than hierarchical levels,
• simple pictures of what we need to know.
• BUT, Swedenborg reminds us
• there are discrete degrees, and
• there are distinctions of divine, spirit nature.

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How we Form our First Ideas

• Our initial ideas are all based on ideas that we
  can obtain from our senses. So
• we use images obtained from sensations of space
  and time,
• spatial and temporal images attach themselves to
  our ideas of discrete degrees,
• Spaces times must not dominate our ideas!
• though space and time images often correspond to
  discrete degrees.

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Imagining Discrete Degrees

• Discrete degrees have been imagined in many
  different ways
• spatial images
• time frequency
• states of nature
• inside and outside
• bounded and unbounded
• Qualitative differences
• do they make discrete degrees?

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What are Discrete Degrees?

• Continuous Degrees
• like the degrees of the waning of light from a
  bright blaze until it is obscured, or
• like the degrees of the decrease of vision from
  objects in the light to those in the shade, or
• like degrees of purity of the atmosphere from its
  depths to its highest point.

• Discrete Degrees
• like prior and posterior,
• like cause and effect, or
• like what produces and what is produced.
• exist distinctly
• influx by correspondences

Can NOT be continuously transformed into each
other.
HH 38
MAY be continuously transformed into each other.
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Natural things with discrete units Are these
discrete degrees?

• Ladder
• Multi-storey house
• Human body

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Discrete, or Images of Discrete?

• Houses, ladders, bodies,
  all represent different discrete
  degrees by correspondences.
• BUT from looking at human bodies, as from
  biology alone, we do not thereby understand what
  are spiritual degrees.
• Houses etc represent
• in simultaneous order of continuous degrees what
  are discrete degrees in successive order.

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The whole and its parts
Perhaps

• the body is the parts,
• the soul is the whole organism ?

But

• the soul would be an aggregation of bodies!
• which controls which?

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Expanded Consciousness

• Expanded or Cosmic consciousness as the
  spiritual?
• Dynamics of mind is expansion, contraction.
• But size is
  continuous!

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Elevated Consciousness

• Higher vs low-level awareness?
• Dynamics of mind is elevation depression.
• But height is
  continuous!

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The Fourth Dimension?
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Another Spatial Dimension?
Are physical and mental different dimensions?
But

• Rotations continuously transform between
  dimensions!

From J.R. Smythies, 1967
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New Vibrational Frequencies?

• Is a new vibrational level, or a new
  harmonic a discrete degree?
• But time is continuous, and so are vibrational
  rates!
• From Swedenborg, we say
• vibrations are a temporal images,
• seen in and from the senses

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Harmonics and Resonances

• Are discrete degrees one of
• Vibrational harmonics?
• Energy levels of atoms?
• But resonances are different time frequencies,
• And intermediate rates are possible (see figures)

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Infinite Time No Time ?
Endless time?
All times are Present?
Heavenly eternity is the source of all succession
of states, not all states together, and not lack
of succession
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Successive Stages?

• Images of waterfalls or emanations are often used
  to represent successive discrete degrees

• Swedenborg often uses calls discrete degrees
  successive degrees.
• True, but this is another representation using
  time.
• Still simultaneous in some senses!

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States of Matter?

• Earth, Water, Air, Fire?
• Solids, Liquids, Gases?
• Fine Subtle Matter?

• Matter Electricity?
• Positive Negative Charges?

Are these Discrete Degrees? Polarities are at
the same natural degree.
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Inside and Outside

• Inmost, Internal, Outer?

• First-person and third-person views?

Is our mind the way we are inside, and our body
our outside?
Is our mind the way we see ourselves, and our
body the way others see us?
ANDREW MARC SAMUELS
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Self-similarity

• Parts are similar in form to the whole
• seen in Chaos Theory.
• Also occurs in the spiritual world
• Man is an image of the heavens, and
• the heavens are an image of God.

• But self-similarity as such does not define the
  spiritual.

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Are ANY pictures suitable?

• We need to separate our understanding, in some
  way, from natural and sensual images.
• This separation may never be complete on earth,
• but let us at least be aware of the way we
  presently think.
• Let us try to form some more positive accounts
  ...

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To understand discrete degrees

• build on and extrapolate what discrete degrees
  discovered by physics and philosophy, or
• rely on our own intuitive understandings of
  causes and effects in ourselves, or
• rely on revelation from the Lord to guide us over
  a difficult phase.
• Preferably, some combination of the above!

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Heat and Light (?)

• Strictly are parts of the
  same spectrum of
  electromagnetic radiation
• BUT
• Heat energy in general (not just radiation)
• Light form of energy conveying information
• Energy and Information are discrete degrees.
• Light is a particular form of energy.

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Discrete Pairs from Physics

• Classical Mechanics
• Force and Motion
• Potential Energy and Force
• Quantum Physics
• Waves and Particles
• Propensities and Events
• Quantum Fields
• Virtual and Actual Processes

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Form and Substance

• For any idea a person forms, however lofty, is
  substantial, that is, attached to substances.
• No substance can exist without being a form.
• Nor is there such a thing as an unformed
  substance, since nothing can be predicated of it,
• A subject without predicated qualities is also an
  irrational entity. (CL 66)

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End, Cause and Effect

• Ends are in the first degree, causes in the
  second, and effects in the third.
• the end is not the cause, but that it produces
  the cause,
• the cause is not the effect, but that it produces
  the effect
• So they are three distinct things following in
  order --
• The end with man is the love of his will, for
  what a man loves, this he proposes to himself and
  intends
• the cause with him is the reason of his
  understanding, for by means of it the end seeks
  for mediate or efficient causes and
• the effect is the operation of the body from them.

ISB 17
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Affection, understanding, action

• Discrete degrees within the spiritual
• Affection from love,
• Understanding from wisdom,
• Action from both these.

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Soul, mind and nature

• Or Discrete degrees -
• Love in the Soul,
• Thoughts in the Mind,
• Actions in Nature.
• Love and thoughts (soul and mind) not in
  space, only the appearance of space.

Do we see Soul, Mind and Nature as layers of
material in space??
Which?
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Love, Wisdom and Use

• In the Divine, these are
• Father, Son and Spirit.
• Can these be put together in one picture?

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Conclusions

• Many natural degrees are continuous
  and not discrete as often thought
• eg those from space, time, matter,
• Other natural degrees are discrete,
  so helpful to understand other degrees
• eg substance/form, energy/information,
• Still need insight and help to understand the
  important spiritual/natural discrete degrees!

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References to more details

• Theistic Science website
• www.TheisticScience.org
• My home page at Surrey University
• www.ph.surrey.ac.uk/phs1it/
• Discrete Degrees (article)
• www.TheisticScience.org/discrete_degrees.html
• This talk
• www.TheisticScience.org/talks/dd/