Science and Religion Since Darwin The

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Science and Religion Since Darwin The
Fairness IssueVoices from an American
Community CollegeandThe Blogosphere

• Paul A. Billeter and Danielle M. Quill

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The College Of Southern Maryland
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Saint Mary

• Charles Calvert
• 3rd Lord Baltimore

• Cecilius Calvert
• 2nd Lord Baltimore

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(No Transcript)
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The College Of Southern Maryland

• Open Admission
• 8,000 credit students
• Mean age 26 Modal 19.4
• 64 Female
• 50 Transfer Track
• 24 Developmental
• 129 F/T Faculty (about 2x P/T)
• 4 Campuses
• Charles, LaPlata
• St. Marys
• Calvert
• Waldorf Center for Higher Education

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The College Of Southern Maryland

• Belize (formerly British Honduras)
• San Salvador Isl, Galapagos
• (formerly James Island)

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The College Of Southern Maryland

• From the student newspaper, The Hawkeye, Dec 2001
• WHAT WAY DID YOU PREPARE FOR YOUR FINALS?
• You dont know it! You wont know it!
• Pray for a miracle.
• I memorize everything and do the best I can.
• The way I study is get a good sleep and pray!
• Recognition of a not-disinterested deity
  concerned with student exam grades (and an
  alternative theory of grade inflation. ) and
  the 50 threshold

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Gallup Poll 6-7 Feb. 2009 Based on 1,018
telephone interviews with national adults, aged
18 and older, 95 confidence with maximum margin
of sampling error is 3
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Gallup Poll 6-7 Feb. 2009 Based on 1,018
telephone interviews with national adults, aged
18 and older, 95 confidence with maximum margin
of sampling error is 3
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E-mail from students mother to Biology
Department Chairman, Summer, 2006

• I have a student who is attending the above
  mentioned summer session class. The professor is
  Billeter. My child came home concerned about the
  fact that many comments were made regarding
  faith (Faith in God) and science and how the
  professors relationship changed with his mother
  over his knowledge of the sciences and implied a
  critical look at the sciences would discount
  faith. With comments like these on the first day
  of class, I am concerned that this class will be
  an Anti-Faith in God approach to Zoology 1020. I
  am a Christian. I dont consider these comments
  and opinions appropriate for a public college or
  used on impressionable minds. Please address this
  issue in your department.
• There is inherent risk in attempting to address
  these topics in biology class.
• 1. If it IS broke, dont fix it. 2. Leave well
  enough alone. 3. Hippocrates 4.Mokita

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Letter to editor, Maryland
Independent, 9/06

• In her letter Let Margaret Young Be Sad
  Someplace Else Barbara Allen accuses Margaret
  Young of pushing her own beliefs in intelligent
  design as opposed to Darwinian Evolution. Let me
  set the record straight.
• Mrs. Young is not pushing her agenda, shes
  pushing mine.
• Who am I? Im a Charles County taxpayer who voted
  for Mrs. Young and happens to care what Charles
  County children learn, especially my own.
  Darwins racist theory about superior vs.
  inferior species is not only garbage, but cant
  be talked about at the human level without
  spawning hate-crime legislation.
• I am proud of those on the school board who have
  been willing to stand up against those peddling
  their religion of secular humanism along with all
  its racism, bigotry and immorality. Darwinism
  cant be defended and its racist implications
  shouldnt be tolerated.

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BIO 1020 Zoology

• Non-majors
• Terminal, both first and last college science
  course
• 80 Female
• Problem-solving laboratory

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Black BoxENSI / SENSI
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The Nobel Foundation. 1979. Ethics for Science
Policy--Report from a Nobel Symposium. Pergamon
Press, Elmsford, N.Y.

• Dorothy Nelkin, Science as a Source of Political
  Conflict
• On similar grounds, fundamentalists take issue
  with the teaching of evolutionary biology in
  public schools. They feel that it intrudes on
  their religious beliefs and demand and that
  schools provide equal time for creation theory.
  They are a sufficiently powerful force that many
  educators, biologists, and publishers view their
  demands as a serious threat to science education.
  
•  
• Even fundamentalists who seek to have the
  Biblical account of creation taught in the public
  schools, present themselves as scientists and
  claim that creation theory is a scientific
  alternative to evolution theory.

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The Nobel Foundation. 1979. Ethics for Science
PolicyReport from a Nobel Symposium. Pergamon
Press, Elmsford, N.Y.Question 5

• Some people argue that the religious concept of
  special creation (the account of creation
  presented in the Book of Genesis of the
  Judeo-Christian Bible) should be taught in
  biology classes as an alternative to the
  scientific theory of Darwinian evolution. Many
  people agree that this seems fair. Take a
  different approach to this debate Discuss
  whether you think the concept of Darwinian
  evolution should be taught in churches.

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Among other thingsan inherently First Amendment
question

• Amendment I
• Congress shall make no law
• respecting an establishment of religion, or
• prohibiting the free exercise thereof or
• abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press
  or the right of the people peaceably to assemble,
  and to petition the government for a redress of
  grievances.

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Results N64 No61
Yes38 ?1Danielles preliminary
interpretation of two classes
Class 2
But further mining of the data.
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Student Results N64 No61
Yes38 ?1Occasional kernels of Falwell,
Huxley, Hitchens, Chesterton, Pascal, and Homer
(Simpson) Collectively the students expressed
the range of arguments associated with this
debate.
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The Outlier

• Personal Undistrust
• I personally do not think it matters, its a
  private matter of personal belief, and although
  people are aware that there are several
  possibilities of evolution, none of them are
  proven 100 true.
• Some people may think that scientific theories
  are pointless
• Undistrust is a negative trust, but insufficient
  to make definite conclusions in the reasoning
  process. (a version of Darwinian caveat emptor)
  Why do you guys make such a big deal over
  this?

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Devout Rejection

• I do not think that Darwinian evolution should
  be taught in churches. I also do not think it
  should be taught in schools. Darwinian evolution
  should be discussed in churches so that people
  will be aware of what is being taught to those
  who are in school and those who do not believe in
  God, but it should not be taught in any church of
  the Lord.
• Do NOT teach Darwin anywhere, except perhaps for
  the purpose of warning parishioners what the
  schools are up to. This illustrates the
  conspiracy theory opinion.

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Devout Rejection

• Churches, synagogues, mosques, temples, kingdom
  halls and other places of worship are houses of
  god. Those are supposed to be sacred places to
  worship truth and god. We do not go to these
  places to learn about unfaiths, or things we do
  not believe in. Genesis teaches that God created
  the earth, the heavens, everything that lives on
  earth in the sea and in heaven. Going to places
  of worship is to build faith and to learn more
  about God. It is not a place to learn things you
  do not believe or have faith in. In a place of
  worship you do learn or take in knowledge of some
  of the things in the world so you can be guarded
  against them but you dont study them as if
  thats what youre trying to become. Darwinism is
  the complete opposite than what the bible teaches
  and states there is no god. No it should not be
  taught in a place of worship.
• This student is a late twenties early thirties
  year old CARPENTER !

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• OP at ACOC Many biblical literalists insist that
  creationism be taught in biology classes in the
  USA. In that everyone already knows the Genesis
  creation account, I propose, as a matter of
  fairness, that Darwinian evolution, which most
  Americans DO NOT understand, be required to be
  taught and studied in all American churches?
  For the sake of this discussion, disregard the
  application of the First Amendment's
  "Establishment" and "Free Exercise"
  clauses."Congress shall make no law respecting
  an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the
  free exercise thereof..."

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The chat room milieu tended to be livelier
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For example

• Regarding Richard Dawkins Who the hell is this
  idiot and why does he deserve all these posts.
  Hell, the Pope didn't get all these posts and
  even when he admitted that he smoked dope. Or was
  that just Ringo? Anyway, what the hell?
• Regarding an editorial by Patrick Buchannan
• Nothing new here, same fundamentalist crap.
  .In keeping with the moronic theme of guilt by
  association put forth in the article pat
  buchanan wrote this article. Pat buchanan is a
  Jew hater. Therefore whoever agrees with this
  article is obviously a Jew hater..You bigots!

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• Debate format
• Both passion and logic are common
• Rancor, ridicule and flaming not uncommon
• Topic moderated by a bright Catholic gent
• Who locked it after 8 days and 147 posts
• Reasons for locking not stated posts became
  quite ad hominem

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• Darwiniacs, The A-Team, Presumptuous Prick, F
  off, racist.
• Sarcasm is an appropriate response to absurdity.
• Pearls before swine. Pagan.
• Origin Of Species thumpers
• This is a joke right?? Probably involved handling
  snakes and drinking poison.
• "disregard the scientific method and the fact
  that evolution has never been observed...
• this Darwin monster is in Hell so here is what he
  said and you can decide to join him if you wish
• My church discussed and accepted evolution from
  the pulpit.
• Unitarian?
• Satanic.

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Devout Rejection and Conspiracy

• Windfall To wipe all "religion" from the public
  community is to establish Atheism as a state
  religion.
• The consequence of overzealous application of the
  Establishment Clause to exclude creationism would
  be establishment of Atheism as the state
  religion. Darwinism Atheism therefore teaching
  Darwinism Establishment .
• Matt I think you've just hit upon the real
  agenda here.
• Matt is the ACOC grassy knollist. He frequently
  equates Darwinism with Atheism and is among many
  who imply that biologists are engaged in a
  conspiracy to destroy religion.

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• Devout Rejection
• Marcus So let's ignore the fact that it would be
  illegal? That's almost as intellectually honest
  as most other discussions on evolution, which are
  usually prefaced with "disregard the scientific
  method and the fact that evolution has never been
  observed...

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• SweetPea simple, just say in church that
  this Darwin monster is in Hell so here is what he
  said and you can decide to join him if you wish
  I can teach that

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Each In Its Place

• Student Sure! Well really, actually as much as
  I would like it to be taught in churches, no. I
  dont think it should be. Just as I believe
  creationism (or any other religious belief-system
  creation story) should have no place in a science
  classroom. Church is a place to practice and
  celebrate a certain type of ritual belief and
  knowledge. It is something most people partake by
  choice and there should be no reason to force
  teaching on them in their place of worship that
  doesnt jive with their creation story. Church
  isnt really a place for empirical thought
  anyway.
• There is a certain level of politeness and
  craving for conflict resolution expressed by many
  students. The anonymity of ACOC and the debate
  format often causes a devolution into flaming.

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• Yes, why don't we just focus on Hoyle. But not
  with you. You're a moron.
• And you keep saying you know philosophy, so why
  should i explain Aristotle? Would you like me to
  explain why 2 plus 2 equals 4, as well?
• Now, you're being an ass-hat. I laid out the
  entire argument with numbers and you mumbled some
  unsupported generalizations. If you think that
  long post was "duh, that's crazy talk," then go
  play with yourself. You sound crazier by the
  post. If you can't man up, then shut up.
• I'm going to go out on a limb here, and assume
  you are serious and intellectually honest.
• Oh that's real generous since you've been
  dangling on the top branch of the stupid-tree
  since the thread started.

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• Getting back to "establishment" we would need to
  know what it means to "establish" a religion. Our
  forefathers came from Britain which had a history
  of religious persecution (Bloody Mary et al) and
  this clause was to expressly prohibit those
  things from happening. Not to say that every
  state office should state that there is no
  God.To wipe all "religion" from the public
  community is to establish Atheism as a state
  religion.

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• Sarcasm and Ridicule are Frequent at ACOC
• Cephei On one condition, I think we should
  start with where all matter and energy come from,
  perhaps starting with electroweak baryogenesis
  first.Then...we could move on to parallel
  universes...oh yeah, perhaps dive into the
  physics behind string theory on Wednesday night
  after choir rehearsal.
• SweetPea just kill God and be done with
  it.............we are all accidents and here by
  chance
• Zach Religious fanatics do a fine job of
  killing their own God without our help.

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• Getting back to "establishment" we would need to
  know what it means to "establish" a religion. Our
  forefathers came from Britain which had a history
  of religious persecution (Bloody Mary et al) and
  this clause was to expressly prohibit those
  things from happening. Not to say that every
  state office should state that there is no
  God.To wipe all "religion" from the public
  community is to establish Atheism as a state
  religion.

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Reply to Conspiracy Theory

• Zach Although there are a lot of unknowns about
  abiogenesis, there are a lot of knowns. It is not
  a vacant, empty field of science where no
  progress can be made, hypotheses formed, and
  tested, at least to a degree.The problem is,
  you won't get that information here. It's lengthy
  and complicated, and full of big words. The work
  of scientists in the field of abiogenesis is kept
  secret and is hidden in books.
• The Beginnings of Life, Bastian, HDie Hypotheses
  Uber Der Ursprung Des Lebens, Pryer, W.T.Les
  Bases Physiques De La Vie, Leduc, S.The Origin
  and Evolution of Life, Osborn, HProishkhozhddenie
  Zhisni, Oparin, AThe Origin of Life, Haldane,
  J.The Physical Basis of Life, Bernal, J. D.The
  Origin of Life, Oparin, A.The Emergence of Life
  From Chemical Origins to Synthetic Biology, Luigi
  Luisi, Pier
• ------------------------------------------------
  --------------------------------------------------
  ------------------------------------
• Zach probably a biologist. He is also an
  atheist. He posts huge replies with citations to
  web and text sources. They are largely ignored
  and ridiculed.

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• Windfall Your still missing the point.Churches
  can preach whatever they want. That's the whole
  purpose of having a church.The government is the
  one literally forcing the theory of evolution on
  the children of America.Do you think the
  government should be allowed to force churches to
  preach other things they don't believe as
  well?How about forcing churches to "teach" about
  "man made global warming" while you are at it?
• --------------------------------------------------
  ---------------------------------
• School is mandatory, church is optional.

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• Matt Children are required by law to attend
  school. They are not required to attend church.
  This is fallacious logic. Using the same twisted
  logic If California teaches six year olds about
  perverted sexual practices under the guise of sex
  education we should also teach How to be a Homo
  101 in six grade Sunday School class. No. Notta.
• -------------------------------------------------
  --------
• School is mandatory, church is optional
  embellished with an analogy

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• Zach You are not applying the same standard.
• There is empirical evidence for evolution.There
  is no empirical evidence for God.None that the
  earth is 6,000 years old.None that all life was
  created within six 24 hour days.None that it was
  all wiped out in a global flood.None that it
  radiated outward after that flood from the Ararat
  Mountains.None that any of the miracles
  described in the bible ever actually
  occurred.None that miracles happen today.If
  the only evidence for evolution was unverifiable
  personal testimony, I would be equally skeptical
  of the theory.
• If evolution were what creationists think it is,
  I would not believe it either. Dawkins???

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• Elvis I'm all for it. Origin Of Species
  thumpers don't do well when directly challenged,
  thus their insistence that other views be made
  illegal. I assume that when we allow you into our
  churches you will reciprocate in the public
  schools?
• On a side note, I doubt that the "Many biblical
  literalists insist that creationism be taught in
  biology classes" aspect of your challenge is even
  true. I've not heard of anyone insisting that
  Genesis be taught as fact in public schools. I
  have heard people asking that alternative
  theories be discussed. What'samatta, you afraid
  ideas?
• Willis And what, pray tell, do you think the
  alternative theories might be?? You know, list
  two or three.
• Elvis I can't list two or three but there are a
  growing number of secular ID/Darwin skeptic
  scientists that Darwinists have not been able to
  answer.
• Elvis I answered your OP and suddenly I'm
  obligated to take whatever quiz you assign me?
  How bout you make a list of shut the hell up?
• illustrates the argument that I.D. is not really
  the Christian God, wink, wink, but might be
  aliens from outer space.

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• Windfall I know this is mostly in jest, however,
  forcing schools to present alternate theories
  that can't be disproven isn't such a bad
  thing.1. Children are forced to go to school by
  the state.2. Schools are forced to teach
  evolution as a theory for the diversity of
  life.3. As evolution is one possible theory,
  alternate theories are presented.A. No one is
  forced to go to any church by the state.B.
  Churches teach specific religions where it is
  unnecessary to teach all religions.on edit I
  think most Christians object to evolution being
  taught as a theory for the CREATION of life,
  which scientifically it doesn't cover. Although
  it assumes random beginnings.
• Windfall understands the difference between
  evolution and biogenesis and Big Bang. Many
  posters on the Creationism side conflate the
  three. Sometimes this is an extension of the
  strategy to divert the argument from well
  established scientific ideas to less well
  established ones. Macro v micro Freidrich Wohler

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A Voice of reason

• Finally, and perhaps most astonishingly, Genesis
  doesn't say how God created life. So who's to say
  that God didn't use so-called evolution processes
  to create life? Indeed, the ongoing evolution v.
  creationism feud seems to be a modern day version
  of the infamous, mindless Hatfield-McCoy feud.

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The College Of Southern Maryland

• Belize (formerly British Honduras)
• San Salvador Isl, Galapagos
• (formerly James Island)

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Verheys Study

• Group 1
• Icons of Evolution by Wells Attacks evolution
  and is sympathetic to ID
• The Blind Watchmaker by Dawkins Supports
  evolution.
• Icons of Obfuscation by Tamzek An Online
  refutation of Wells and the Process of science
• Group 2
• Read and Discussed The Red Queen Sex and the
  Evolution of Human Nature
• An evolutionary exploration of sexual selection
  an sexuality
• 61 in Group 1reported some change in their
  beliefs most of these students were initially
  sympathetic to creationist explanations and moved
  toward greater acceptance of evolution. Only 21
  of students in Group 2 reported change in their
  beliefs.

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Active Learning

• The constructivist, active learning approach has
  been tested and shown to produce significant
  change in problem-solving abilities and
  sophistication of thought.
• If students attack the controversy head on the
  gains are measurably increased.
• Discussing Creationism/I.D. may be best way to
  achieve desired outcomes, i.e. expanded abilities
  of sophisticated problem solving.
• And thats what college is all about.

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Active Learning

• SOTL
• ENSI / SENSI
• Verheys Study
• Nelsons Editorial

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Another forum drifted into the realm of Dr. Seuss
illustrating that some questions simply have no
suitable answers

• Poster A The goat is the greatest of all time.
  Goat.
• Poster B Demi wrote a goat gloat. weird?
• I would not read it in a boat I would not read
  it in a moat I will not speak it thru my throat
  I will not write it in a note I would not read
  it while eating an orange... Your turn.