Title: WELCOME TO THE COURSE WORK STUDY (IE 341)
1WELCOME TO THE COURSEWORK STUDY(IE 341)
- OFFERED BY
- SAYED ALIUL HASAN RIZVI, PhD PROFESSOR
- DEPT OF INDUSTRIAL ENGINEERING
- KING ABDULAZIZ UNIVERSITY, JEDDAH
-
2INTRODUCTION
- With increasing complexities of the technological
world,need to simplify the work system has been
increasing day by day. - Work study is an area of knowledge that addresses
the problem of work simplification with the basic
objectives of - PRODUCTIVITY ENHANCEMENT, and
- HUMAN COMFORT SAFETY
-
3WORK STYDY HAS MANY OTHER NAMES FOR EXAMPLE
- METHODS ENGINEERING,
- WORK SCIENCE,
- WORK DESIGN,
- JOB ESIGN
- WORK METHODS DESIGN WORK MEASUREMENT
- MOTION TIME STUDY
- Original names were
- Motion study,Time Study
- then, Motion Time Study
-
4DEFINITION
- It is the systematic study of work systems with
the purposes of - Developing the preferred system and Method
-
( with lowest cost) - 2. Standardizing this system and method
- 3. Determining standard time for the task
- 4. Assisting in training the worker in the
preferred Method
5EXPLANATION
- Above stated definition has FOUR parts. However,
the TWO most important for WORK STUDY are - 1.MOTION STUDY
- (or Work Methods Design)
- 2. TIME STUDY
- (or Work Measurement)
6ILO DEFINITION
- It is the systematic examination of carrying on
activities so as to improve the effective use of
resources and to set standards of performance for
the activities being carried out. -
-
7LECTURE 3-4CHAPTER 2WORK STUDY
PRODUCTIVITY
8HUMANS BASIC NEEDS PRODUCTIVITY
- In 1950 world population was 2.5 b
- Now it is of the order of 6.5 b
- 90 increase has occurred in developing
nations.
9 CONTD.
- Out of these people, more than
- 1 b are below poverty line, struggling for
the - BASIC NEEDS which are
- food,
- clothing,
- shelter,
- security,
- health and
- essentials like water, sanitation etc.
10 CONTD.
- For Improving the STANDARD OF LIVING, of its
citizens, the concerned nation must raise its
PRODUCTIVITY for economic growth. For any
organization, its input-output system can be
represented as follows -
- INPUT
OUTPUT
PROCESS
11 CONTD.
- INPUTS may be in the form of different Ms
- man, material, machine,
method, management, market, message ( i.e.
information), moment (i.e. time ) - OUTPUT may be a
- product or
- service.
- PRODUCTIVITY may be defined as follows
12 MATHEMATICALLY PRODUCTIVITY
OUTPUT / INPUTTHUS PRODUCTIVITY measures
the extent to which a certain OUTPUT can be
extracted FROM A GIVEN INPUT.It may be noted
that PRODUCTION ( which is number of products)
is different from PRODUCTIVITY.
13 CONTD.
- WORK STUDY IS A TOOL OF PRODUCTIVITY ENHANCEMENT.
- It simplifies a job TO REDUCE UNNECESSARY OR
EXCESS WORK,WASTEFUL USE OF RESOURCESand sets
up STANDARD TIME for performing that job.
14 CONTD.
- THIS IMPLIES THAT
- THERE IS A DIRECT RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN WORK STUDY
AND PRODUCTIVITY. - THUS, BY APPLYING WS PRINCIPLES IF THE COST IS
REDUCED BY 20, THEN, WE CAN SAY THAT
PRODUCTIVITY HAS GONE UP BY 20.
15WORK CONTENT OF A JOB
- WORK CONTENT
- It means the amount of work contained in a given
job/work/product/process. - It is measured in MAN-HOURS/ WORK-HOURS (effort
or labor of ONE person for ONE hour), or MACHINE
HOURS (running of a machine/plant for ONE hour).
16TOTAL TIME OF A JOB
- TOTAL TIME OFA JOB COMPRISES OF
- 1. BASIC WORK CONTENT
- 2. EXCESS WORK CONTENT
- BASIC WORK CONTENT is irreducible minimum
time required theoretically to produce one unit
of productIn REAL LIFE WORLD, actual operation
times are FAR MORE IN EXCESS due to the EXCESS
WORK CONTENT.
17 CONTD.
- EXCESS WORK CONTENT may be due to following
- THREE CATEGORIES of factors
- (i) A-category
- A1 POOR DESIGN FREQUENT
- DESIGN CHANGESA2 WASTE OF
MATERIALSA3 INAPPROPRIATE QUALITY - STANDARDS
18 CONTD.
- (ii) B-category
- B1 POOR LAYOUT POOR
- UTILISATION OF SPACEB2 INADEQUATE
MATERIAL - HANDLINGB3 FREQUENT STOPPAGES AS
- PRODUCTION CHANGES FROM
- ONE PRODUCT TO ANOTHER
19 CONTD.
-
- B4 INEFFECTIVE METHOD OF WORK
B5 POOR PLANNING OF INVENTORY
B6 FREQUENT BREAKDOWN OF MACHINES
AND EQUIPMENT
20iii) C-categoryC1 ABSENTEEISM AND
LATENESSC2 POOR WORKMANSHIP, ANDC3 ACCIDENTS
AND OCCUPATIONAL HAZARDS
TOTAL TIME OF A JOB
BASIC WORK CONTENT EXCESS
WORK CONTENT ( A B C )
(OR, TOTAL INEFFECTIVE TIME)
21LECTURE 5-8
- CHAPTER 3
- WORK STUDY ,THE APPROACH
22 WS IS VALUABLE because By carrying out its
systematic procedures,one can get results as good
as or even better than the less systematic genius
would have been able to achieve in the past.It
is systematic both in the investigation of the
problem and in the development of its solution.
23 CONTD.
- It raises productivity of the plant /unit by
simply reorganization of the work, with either a
nominal or no extra input.It sets the
performance standards on which the effectiveness
of the production planning and control depends.
24 CONTD.It contributes to
human safety by providing safer methods of work,
and allows for better working conditions by
exposing the hazardous situations.Its
application starts providing savings immediately,
and continues till the operation continues.
25 CONTD.
- It is a tool that can be used every where, be it
industrial or non-industrial environment. - It is easy and relatively cheaper in its
application.It is an excellent weapon for
starting an attack on the inefficient system. - HOWEVER, WS SPECIALISTS SHOULD APPLY IT
TACTFULLY, SO THAT WORKERS REMAIN CO-OPERATIVE
WHILE STUDIES ARE CONDUCTED IN THE PLANT.
26TECHNIQUES OF WORK STUDY These
are1. METHOD STUDY is the systematic recording
and critical examination of ways of doing things
in order to make improvements. THUS it
simplifies the job and develops more economical
method of doing it.2.WORK MEASUREMENT is the
application of techniques designed to establish
the time for a qualified worker to carry out a
task at a defined rate of working.THUS it
determines how long it should take to carry out
the work.
27BASIC PROCEDURE OF WS comprise of following
STEPS1.SELECT the
job/task/process to be studied.2.RECORD all
the relevant data/facts about the
selected job.3.EXAMINE the recorded
facts critically by challenging
its purpose, place, sequence, person, and
method.4.DEVELOP new
methods,as alternative methods, of
doing the selected job. 5.EVALUATE
results of different alternative solutions.
6.DEFINE the new method and present it to
the concerned people.
7.INSTAL the new method and provide
training to the concerned
staff . 8.MAINTAIN the new standard practice
and establish control
procedures.
28ACCORDING TO BARNES Since Methods Engineering is
a form of CREATIVE PROBLEM SOLVING, THE GENERAL
PROBLEM SOLVING PROCESSES can be employed in WS
also. Accordingly, following FIVE STEPS can
be used 1.Problem definition Statement of
the purpose/goal 2. Analysis of the problem
Fact-recording no evaluation 3.Search for
possible solutions Finding several
alternative solutions. 4. Evaluation of
alternatives Examining which
alternative meets the goal/criteria most, in
order to evolve the preferred
solution. 5. Recommendation for action
Communicating the details ,related to the
preferred method to all concerned.
29LECTURE 9-10
- CHAPTER 6
- METHOD STUDY JOB SELECTION
30STEP I JOB/TASK/PROCESS SELECTION
- It involves following considerations
- 1. ECONOMIC CONSIDERATIONS
- 2. TECHNOLOGICAL CONSIDERATIONS and
- 3. HUMAN CONSIDERATIONS
31 Contd.
- 1.ECONOMIC CONSIDERATIONS
- Cost effectiveness i.e. to check whether or
not the WS application would pay. For this,
key-profit giving/ costliest operations with
largest waste/scrap should be attacked first.
Next bottleneck operations, repetitive
operations, repeated material handling operations
should be studied. For locating most important
operations, PARETO ANALYSIS could be used.
322.TECHNICAL/TECHNOLOGICAL CONSIDERATIONS
- The analysis involves application of WS for
the selection of the operations/processes where
new technology e.g. automation/ robotisation
should be introduced.
333.HUMAN CONSIDERATIONS
- Analysis involves location of those
operations which present the sources of
dissatisfaction and/or annoyance to the workers
due to fatigue or monotony or unsafe environment
or a work which is clumsy in nature.
34LECTURE 11-12CHAPTER 7RECORDING THE FACTS
DIAGRAMS CHARTS
35 STEP II RECORDING THE FACTS
- Related to the existing process/ job ALL THE
FACTS should be recorded ACCURATELY. - TOOLS OF FACT-RECORDING are
- (A) CHARTS, which may be of two types
- (i) Based on SEQUENCE
- (a) Outline Process Chart
- (b) Flow Process Chart
- (c) Two-Handed Chart ( or Operation
- Chart / Left Hand Right
Hand chart) -
36 CONTD.
- (ii ) Based on TIME scale
- (a) Multiple Activity Chart
- (b) SIMO ( SImultaneous MOtion) Chart
-
- (B) DIAGRAMS which may be of the following
types - Flow diagram, String Diagram, Travel Chart,
- Cyclegraph, Chronocyclegraph,
37PROCESS CHART SYMBOLS
- ASME has recommended FIVE standard symbols to be
used on -
Process Charts, given below - OPERATION Main steps of the
- task /job involving
modification /change. - 2. INSPECTION Checking
quality / quantity. -
- TRANSPORTATION For movement of
-
persons/materials. - DELAY (TEMPORARY) For waiting
time of -
operators or materials. - 5. STORAGE (PERMANENT DELAY) For
- controlled storage involving
authorized - issue/receipt of material etc.
- NOTE FOR TWO PARALLEL EVENTS, BOTH ARE
- SHOWN IN ONE JOINT OR COMBINED
SYMBOL e. g. - operation inspection ,jointly are
shown - by symbol, indicated in the figure.
38THE OUTLINE FLOW PROCESS CHART
- It uses ONLY TWO SYMBOLS
-
- It provides an OVERALL PICTURE of the process /
job / task. - Primarily it is used to show the sequence of
operations inspections for a MANUFACTURING or
an ASSEMBLY kind of jobs.
39FLOW PROCESSCHART
- It uses ALL THE FIVE SYMBOLS and provides the
total sum details of the process/job under
study. - A Flow Process chart may be of the following
types - 1.MAN-TYPE in which every symbol is
- related to his/her activity
only. - 2.MATERIAL TYPE in which every symbol
- is related to the material
of the job - or a document (e.g. in
offices) or a - machine/equipment.
- Data / information in a flow process chart are
recorded in specifically designed FORM, as given
in the TEXT BOOK / CLASS ROOM.
40LECTURE 13-14CHAPTER 7 (CONTD)
41STEP III CRITICAL EXAMINATION
- The facts recorded in the Flow Process Chart are
now EXAMINED CRITICALLY - by applying the
- QUESTIONING TECHNIQUE,
- which involves the following SEQUENCE
42 CONTD.
- PURPOSE for which the activity is done
- PLACE at ,, ,, ,, ,,
,, - SEQUENCE in ,, ,, ,, ,, ,,
- PERSON by whom ,, ,, ,, ,, ,,
- MEANS by which ,, ,, ,, ,, ,,
- WITH THE OBJECTIVE OF ELIMINATING/
- COMBINING/ REARRANGING/ SIMPLIFYING THE
ACTIVITIES INVOLVED IN THE PROCESS. - QUESTIONING TECHNIQUE involves
- 1. PRIMARY QUESTIONS and
- 2. SECONDARY QUESTIONS explained
below
43PRIMARY QUESTIONS
- According to the QUESTIONING TECHNIQUE the
PRIMARY QUESTIONS are as follows - Purpose-based WHAT is actually done?
- WHY is the
activity ELIMINATE - necessary, at
all? - Place-based WHERE is it being done?
- WHY at this
place? - Sequence-based WHEN is it done?
- WHY at that
time? COMBINE or - Person-based WHO is doing it ?
REARRANGE - WHY by this
person? - Means-based HOW is it being done?
SIMPLIFY - WHY in that
particular way?
44SECONDARY QUESTIONS
- Corresponding to each answer obtained through the
PRIMARY QUESTIONS further questions are raised to
explore about the - ALTERNATIVES
- i. e. alternate purpose, place, sequence,
person means. - This methodology makes use of the SECONDARY
QUESTIONS given as follows
45 Contd.
- WHAT ELSE might be done?
- WHERE ELSE might it be done?
- WHEN ELSE might it be done?
- WHO ELSE might do it?
- HOW ELSE might it be done?
- BY ANSWERING THE PRIMARY SECONDARY QUESTIONS WE
USE THE SYSTEMATIC CRITICAL EXAMINATION IN ORDER
TO EVOLVE A BETTER METHOD OF DOING THE WORK.
46 Contd.
- AS A RESULT, ONE CAN DEVELOP A BETTER METHOD IN
LIGHT OF THE OBTAINED ANSWERS TO THE FOLLOWING
QUESTIONS - WHAT should be done?
- WHERE should it be done?
- WHEN should it be done?
- WHO should do it ?
- HOW should it be done?
47LECTURE 15-17CHAPTER 8RECORDING
MOVEMENT OF WORKERS/MATERIALS
48RECORDINGMOVEMENT OF WORKERS/
MATERIALS
- TOOLS USED FOR THIS PURPOSE ARE
-
- STRING DIAGRAM
- FLOW DIAGRAM
- TRAVEL CHART
-
49STRING DIAGRAM
- IT IS A SCALE PLAN OR MODEL ON WHICH A THREAD OR
STRING IS USED TO TRACE AND MEASURE THE PATH OF
WORKERS/ MATERIALS DURING A SPECIFIED SEQUENCE OF
EVENTS. - LENGTH OF THE THREAD/STRING MEASURES THE DISTANCE
MOVED.
50FLOW DIAGRAM
- It is a FLOOR-PLAN showing the path of travel of
the operator or the material, through the plant. - It ALSO indicates the direction of travel by
means of arrows, drawn on the diagram. -
51TRAVEL CHART ( or, FROM-TO CHART)
- It is a tabular record of quantitative data about
movement of workers/materials/equipment between
any number of places over a given period of time.
It is always in the form of a SQUIRE, having
within it the squires. - EACH SMALL SQUIRE REPRESENTS A STATION.
- Along the TOP, squires from left to right
represent the stations FROM where movement or
travel occurs. - Along those DOWN THE LEFT HAND, the squires
represent the stations TO which the movement is
made.
52MAN-MACHINE CHART (MULTIPLE ACTIVITY CHART)
- This kind of process chart records the
activities of the operator as well as the machine
on the same chart against a common time scale. - Separate vertical columns ( in the form of bars)
are used for both. - The chart clearly indicates the IDLENESS (or
UTILISATION) of operator as well as the machine. - On the basis of the recorded events in the chart,
one can rearrange the process so that IDLE-TIME
is reduced, or BETTER UTILISATION of the
operator/machine is achieved. - It is used for balancing the work between man and
machine proper utilization of maintenance crew
/team-activities in mass production.
53LECTURE 18-24
- CHAPTER 9
- METHODS MOVEMENTS AT THE WORKPLACE
54METHODS MOVEMENTS AT THE WORKPLACEPRINCIPLES
OF MOTION ECONOMY
- These principles can be helpful in work design,
in reducing the human fatigue and in improving
the work efficiency. According to Barnes, these
can be presented under following THREE
subgroups - 1.Principles of motion economy as related to the
USE OF HUMAN BODY - 2.Principles of motion economy as related to the
ARRANGEMENT OF THE WORKPLACE - 3.Principles of motion economy as related to the
DESIGN OF TOOLS EQUIPMENT
55A .Principles of motion economy as related to
the USE OF HUMAN BODY
- 1.The two hands should begin and complete their
movements at the same time. - 2. The two hands should not be idle at the same
time. - 3.Motions of the arms should be symmetrical and
in opposite direction and should be made
simultaneously.
56 Principles Contd
- 4.Hand and body motions should be made at the
lowest classification at which it is possible to
do the work satisfactorily. -
- The term CLASSIFICATION OF HAND
- MOTION is explained as follows
57CLASSIFICATION OF HAND MOTIONS
- CLASS PIVOT BODY MEMBERS MOVED
- 1 Knuckle Finger (F)
- 2 Wrist Hand (H) F
- 3 Elbow Fore Arm (FA) H F
- 4 Shoulder Upper Arm (UA) FAHF
- 5 Trunk Torso UA FA H F
58 Principles
CONTD.
- 5. Momentum should be employed to help the worker
,but should be reduced to a minimum whenever it
is to overcome by muscular effort. - 6.Continuous curved motions are to be preferred
to straight line motion involving sudden and
sharp changes in direction. - 7. Ballistic (free-swinging) motions are faster,
easier, and more accurate than restricted or
controlled motions.
59 Principles
CONTD.
- 8.Rhythm is essential to the smooth and automatic
performance of a repetitive operation. The work
should be arranged to permit an easy and natural
rhythm whenever it is possible. - 9.Work should be arranged so that eye-movements
are confined to a comfortable area, without the
need for frequent changes of the focus.
60B.Principles of motion economy as related to
the ARRANGEMENT OF THE WORKPLACE
- 1.Definite and fixed positions/stations should be
provided for all tools and materials to permit
habit formation. - 2.Tools and materials should be pre-positioned to
reduce searching.
61 CONTD.
- 3.Gravity-feed, bins and containers should be
used to deliver the materials as close to the
point of use as possible. - 4.Tools, materials, and controls should be
located within the maximum working area and as
near to the worker as possible. - WORKING AREA (WA) may be divided into
- 1.NORMAL WA
- 2.MAXIMUM WA explained below
62 Cotd.
- Normal Working Area (WA)
- ( Finger wrist elbow) Movement
- MOST
CONVENIENT ZONE - Edge
- of bench
operator -
-
operator - Maximum WA (Shoulder Movement)
63DIMENSIONS FOR SEATED TASKS
- 1.SEAT HEIGHT should be adjustable
- (
range36-45 ) - 2. WORK SURFACE HEIGHT should be around
- elbow
level (range65-72 cm) - 3.LEG CLEARANCE 40 cm at knee level
- 60
cm for the feet - 4.THIGH CLEARANCE 20 cm minimum
- 5.WORK SURFACE THICKNESS 5cm max.
64 Principles CONTD.
- 5.Materials and tools should be arranged to
permit the best sequence of motions. - 6.Drop deliveries or ejectors should be used
wherever possible, so that operators do not have
to use his/her hands to dispose of the finished
work.
65 Principles
CONTD.
- 7.Provision should be made for adequate lighting
and, a chair of the type of height to permit good
posture should be provided. The height of the
workplace and seat should be arranged to allow
alternate standing and sitting. - 8.The color of the workplace should contrast with
that of the work and thus reduce the eye-fatigue.
66C. Principles of motion economy as related to
the the DESIGN OF TOOLS EQUIPMENT
- 1.The hands should be relieved of all work of
holding the work-piece where this can be done
by a jig, fixture or foot-operated device. - 2.Two or more tools should be combined wherever
possible. - 3.Where each finger performs some specific
movement, as in typewriting, the load should be
distributed in accordance with the inherent
capacities of the fingers.
67 Principles CONTD.
- 4.Handles such as those on cranks and large screw
divers should be so designed that as much surface
of the hand as possible can come in contact with
the handle. This is specially necessary when
considerable force has to be used on the handle. - 5.Levers crossbars and hand-wheels should be so
placed that the operator can use them with the
least change in body position and the largest
mechanical advantage.
68TWO-HANDED PROCESS CHART (OPERATION
CHART/LEFT-HAND RIGHT-HAND CHART)
- It shows the activities of the two hands in
relation to one another. - ACCORDING TO BARNES
- It uses ONLY TWO SYMBOLS
- Small circle for TRANSPORTATION
- Big circle for OPERATION.
- ACCORDING TO ILO
- It uses ALL process chart symbols EXCEPT
INSPECTION - After studying a few cycles recording is done.
- ONLY ONE HAND is charted AT A TIME.
69FUNDAMENTAL HAND MOTIONS
- Gilbreth observed that most work done by two
hands consists of a few fundamental motions. - He called EACH ONE of them as THERBLIG. (name of
GILBRETH ,read in reverse order). - THERBLIG G I L B R E T H
- ( read in reverse
order)
70 contd.
- Today we have 17 Therbligs as follows
- Search, select,
grasp, transport empty,
transport loaded, hold,
release load position,
preposition, inspect,
assemble, disassemble, use,
unavoidable delay avoidable delay,
plan, rest for
overcoming fatigue. - THESE ARE USED IN MICROMOTION STUDIES (FACTS
RECORDED ON FILMS)
71MICROMOTION STUDIES
- Operations with very short cycles repetitive
cycles need greater details to analyze it for
saving motions and effort( i.e. planning for
lesser fatigue). This goal can be achieved
through Micro-motion Studies. - MICRO means small. Thus here we study the
motions in terms of THERBLIGS.
72 CONTD.
- Such a study involves the use of
- FILM and VIDEO
when operator performs the job. - Later on the film/video can be run slowly THROUGH
A PROJECTOR and - Frame by frame analysis of the work can be
carried out. - Film provides greater flexibility of filming and
playback speeds WHEREAS video is easier in use.
73 Contd.
- STEPS
- 1. Filming the job
- 2. Analysis of the film,
- 3. Presenting DATA/FACTS
- graphically through
- SIMO chart.
-
- (SImultaneous Motion Chart)
-
74 CONTD.
- EQUIPMENT
- Camera, Film,
Micro-chronometer, - Exposure meter, Flood lights,
- Reflectors, Tripod,,
Projector etc. - OR,
- VIDEOCAMERA plus its
- accessories for filming
- operation.
-
75 CONTD.
- ADVANTAGES OF MICROMOTION STUDIES OVER DIRECT
OBSERVATION. - Greater details are made availalble
- More accurate
- Easier in data collection
- Better for record keeping
- Help in work study personnel's development
76FILM ANALYSIS
- Film is run on projector,
- Details of the work-cycle are identified in terms
of THERBLIGS, first for - Left hand
- and then for
- Right hand,
- TIME ( in WINK) is noted from the
- Chronometer readings of the film for each
- therblig.
- 1 WINK (1/2000) OF A MINUTE
77 CONTD.
- With these data SIMO (Simultaneous Motion) chart
is made as shown below - LH Activities Therblig Time
Therblig RH Activity
78MEMOMOTION ANALYSIS
- It was introduced by MUNDEL.
- It is a special type of micro-motion study in
which activities are FILMED AT MUCH SLOWER SPEED
(60 to 100 frames per minute) i.e. at longer
intervals than normal (intervals being between
0.5 to 4 s). - Thus a general pattern of movements can be
obtained and avoidable motions can be
identified.
79 contd.
- STEPS Study the operation to be filmed
- Prepare the film Analyze the film
- Develop a better method.
- ADVANTAGES More economical (less film consumed)
and Long sequence of activities can be recorded - APPLICATIONS
- Team-work studies
- Material flow studies ( e.g. baggage
- movement at the
airports ) - Long cycle job studies
- Study of artificial limbs motions etc
80CYCLEGRAPH
- It was introduced by Gilbreth.
- It is a photographic record of the path of
movement of the operator doing a job. - Little source of light (bulb) is attached to the
hand or finger or any other body part, whose
motions are to be analyzed. When he/she performs
the operation and photograph is taken
continuously, the path of motions is recorded on
the film as CONTINUOUS STREAK OF LIGHT as shown
below -
OPERATO R
81CHRONOCYCLEGRAPH
- It is a special type of cycle-graph in which the
light source (bulb) is suitably INTERRUPTED
ELECTRICALLY so that the path of motion in the
photograph appears as a SERIES OF PEAR-SHAPED
SPOTS instead of continuous streak of light as
shown below -
PEAR-SHAPED SPOTS - MOTION DIRECTION
- The pointed end of the pear shows the direction
of movement. - More elongated and spaced pear-spots indicate
higher speed of operation.. - It helps in studying the complex and restricted
motions also.