Dialogue and how to avoid it

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Dialogue and how to avoid it

• Jon Dron (School of Computing, Mathematical
  Information Sciences)
• 27th February 2004

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Rough plan

• Introduction
• Part I eSystems FdSc and Moores theory of
  transactional distance
• Part II Discussing discussions
• Coffee and sticky notes
• Part III Do something impossible
• Plenary

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Part I eSystems and transactional distance

• Theory and experience

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eSystems Design Technology FdSc

• Blended learning Foundation Degree
• Run mainly online via a custom-built VLE for 2
  years,
• Running on StudentCentral since the start of this
  academic year

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Why we went online

• Demographic issues
• Part-time, working students, studying Internet
  computing
• Pragmatic issues
• Coordinating 3 (now 2) colleges and the
  University of Brighton
• StudentCentral was a gleam in Stans eye so we
  built our own VLE

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How we intended to do it

• Central ethos build a learning community
• Learning is constructed by learners through
  dialogue with tutors and other learners
• Dialogue is mainly through asynchronous
  discussion forums
• Static web pages provide content and some
  structure
• Course administration and development handled
  through the same environment

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Why communication?

• Michael Moores theory of transactional distance
  it is not physical distance that matters
• Dialogue vs. Structure
• As structure increases, dialogue decreases and
  vice versa
• The eSystems degree was designed with a strong
  emphasis on dialogue

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Dialogue and structure

• A low threshold approach to development
• HoweverRequires time and a strong ongoing
  commitment to maintaining dialogue

Structure
Development time
Dialogue
Delivery time
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Moore on transactional distance

• Three dimensions dialogue, structure and learner
  autonomy
• Autonomous learners can cope better with more
  structure (self-guiding plan, implement and
  evaluate instruction)

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Structure, dialogue and autonomy

• A continuous relationship the more structure,
  the less dialogue
• Autonomous learners can handle greater
  transactional distance (though might also exert
  more control through dialogue)

dialogue
autonomy
structure
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What we wanted

• Any time, any place (asynchronous, asyntopic) for
  students and tutors
• Time to reflect more thoughtful conversations
• A great equaliser (including the tutor)
• Conversations become a resource visible history
• Low threshold technology (not a time saver but
  easy to do)
• Caters for different learning styles

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Trying to get there

• Learning technologist employed
• Instructional designer employed to assist with
  module development
• Tutors tutored using Gilly Salmons 5 step model

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Salmons model
Moderating
Providing links outside closed conference

• Development

Supporting, responding
Facilitating process

• Knowledge construction

Conferencing
Facilitating tasks and supporting use of learning
materials
Searching, personalising software

• Information exchange

• Online socialisation

Familiarising and providing bridges
Sending and receiving messages
Technical

• Access and motivation

Setting up system and accessing
Welcoming and encouraging
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What actually happened

• Dependence on structure rather than dialogue
• Tutor unfamiliarity with method rapid staff
  turnover
• Lack of time (FE tutors)
• Lack of time (working students)
• Student expectations (to be given information)

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Systemic failures

• The greater the structure, the lesser the
  dialogue
• Dialogue begets dialogue, structure begets
  structure
• Insufficient dialogue to sustain community
• Increasing dependency on infrequent face-to-face
  gatherings
• The result 50 dropout rate

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Trying again

• We lost our learning technologist
• StudentCentral was the only game in town
• Revisiting Salmon getting to step 5 and staying
  there
• Embedding dialogue

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Embedding dialogue a change in emphasis

• Learners have to start in Discussion board
• Week 1 used for dialogue only
• Tutor uses forum to initiate and monitor
  activities
• Schedule is flexible topics often last more
  than 1 week
• Material is provided when needed
• Activities designed to fit experiential learning
  cycle

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Early results

• Little increase in dialogue (though slightly
  more among first year students)
• More evenly spread
• Tutors still learning a lot of structured
  dialogue
• Less than 10 dropout rate (so far!)

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Part II Discussing discussions

• If dialogue is so important then we need to know
  how not to do it

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How not to start dialogue?
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How did that start?
Some leading questions but limited potential
for discussion

• You will find search engines extremely useful
  whilst on this course. Most of you will be
  familiar with using at least one of the many 'out
  there'.
• Some search engines are better than others for
  certain subjects and some are better as
  directories of services.
• Have a look at Using the Internet and Email at
  the exercise in the 'Search Engines' section.
• Do you have a favourite search engine? Why?
• Is it quick to return results?
• Are they clearly displayed?
• Are the results accurate?
• Let me have your thoughts as a reply to this
  posting.

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Responses what next?

• Lets start with the exercise. I was looking for
  two completely different things "pet shop" and
  "british embassy".The number of results was the
  highest in Google and the searchnever took more
  then 0.2 sec. Yahoo performed almost as good,it
  was slightly slower and had 2 less number of
  results. Both search engines displayed their
  results clearly and informationpresented was
  relevant. AltaVista gave the smallest number of
  results for both searches but information was
  straight forward,plus "pet shop" search results
  had an additional refining function which was
  very useful for further search of
  specificinformation related to "pet shop" such
  as "pet foods","uk pet shops" etc.I will say my
  favourite search engine is Google,it's quick
  andaccurate.

Factual response little scope for further
discussion
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Responses What next?

• my preferred search engine is google.co.uk, it is
  usually very accurate and produces the most
  results,(when i searched for 'David Blaine')
  although too much information can be a bad
  thing.for both searches carried out (Busted being
  the other one)yahoo and google came up with the
  same results which were accurate, i think the
  third best search engine i tried was Netscape,
  this didn't produce as many results as the other
  2 but it was accurate and the presentation was
  better than the others, reading that back i think
  Netscape was probable best, but i use google all
  the time so im use to it which is why i think it
  was best, i found another one, Mightycrawler.com
  - it was rubbish, it didn't find anything even
  relating to it.

Strong opinion potential for further discussion?
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However

• This was the first weeks exercise
• Learners getting used to online socialisation
• Safe information exchanges

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Good practice Increasing socialisation
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Building communities

• Subject Saw this and thought of you all ...
• ...but not relevent here.This is for those of
  you that remember the internet enabled
  fridge!No, it's not April 1st but here is
  the-Internet Enabled Toilet Roll-Internet
  Enabled Chopping Boardhttp//news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/
  technology/2917739.stmhttp//www.idealhomeshow.co
  .uk/content/attractions/content.asp?location32M
  y hat off to the researchers at Brunel
  University!!

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Closing it down

• Subject And the winner is ...
• ..."It works with brown, but best with white,"
  said Mr Southgate.http//news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/
  tech/1264205.stm

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Good practice setting the ground rules
friendly

• The Welcome to FD143 (Networking) Forum  
• A welcome to both our Crawley and SDC students to
  the fruity world of Networking and Network
  Technology - hope you like the buttons
• Over the course of this module, we will revisit
  some of the topics in ETs 1 2 as well as
  covering new material.
• We hope you will enjoy this module and (if you
  haven't already) start to really understand the
  "bigger networking " picture.
• The first task is to have a look through the
  Course Information to get an idea of what we will
  be looking at and to identify two important
  dates....
• This is also an opportunity for you to post up
  your thoughts, suggestions, questions for the
  fortcoming module...
• In an attempt to make these discussions more
  focused and interesting I will always post a
  closing date as followsThis FORUM will close on
  Wed 11th Feb

Clear tasks and goals
Clear limits and constraints
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Good practice clarifying and negotiating goals

• Preliminary discussion
• Sorting out misconceptions
• Fixing access problems
• Agreeing formats
• Socialising
• The scene was set for a perfect discussion then

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What happened next

• The first piece of work Disaster!
• 8 messages posted over two weeks
• 5 of those were posted by the tutor

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What went wrong 1

• Tutor opens it up with a question or two
• Subject Have Networks Changed Your Life?
• Do you think they have? If you do, then say why
  and how and if you don't then why not?
• And how much is a network worth?

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What went wrong 2

• A student gives a very lengthy response
• Hi all,My only experience with networks has
  been through employment. for years I have always
  avoided being a part of a network and have always
  preferred a stand alone computer! The main
  reason for this has been no real need in my job
  to need to access shared programs or files. The
  only real benefit for being 'connected' was for
  accessing additional storage space and giving
  someone else the responsibility for ensuring back
  ups were carried out.When the advantage was
  weighed up against the benefits the problems
  associated with network failure out weighed the
  benefits.However, about 6 months ago I finally
  gave in and now access my files and programs via
  a network server and have the benefits outlined
  above. So far there have only been a few
  occasions where network administration and
  failures have prevented me from carrying out my
  job. I do however still use a laptop and tend to
  copy some things that I work on to the 'C' drive
  to enusre I have full access.So as far as work
  is concerned my 'life' has changed very
  little.BUTAs far as study is concerned, this
  is great! I don't have to physically go somewhere
  to learn and communicate, I can access (most of
  the time) resources that I need and submit
  assignments without having to find a large brown
  envelope, go to the post office to get it weighed
  and pay for postage.It has however, I feel a
  downside, and this is the reduced social
  interaction with fellow students. On many
  previous courses that required physical
  attendance I have made many friends and have
  remained in contact with these people for years.
  I also feel that the way that people use
  English and grammar in all forms of writing has
  been impacted by the use of networks for written
  communication. This response is written in a very
  informal way because it is easier and quicker
  than having to think about how to express an
  opinion in formal terms and this 'habit' can
  overflow into scenarios where a more formal
  approach is needed. I also have the benefit of
  being a trained touch typist and will go back
  (most of the time!) and correct punctuation,
  spelling and grammar whereas other people who may
  take longer to 'type' a message for communication
  may produce text with errors and mislead the
  receiver into thinking it was rushed or fail to
  clearly express what they are trying to say.Do
  you think we will start to judge people by the
  way they write in the same way that we do from
  first appearances and body language and
  communication? It is difficult to 'interrupt'
  someone speaking when communicating across a
  network.Anyway in conclusion, I imagine being
  able to carry out tasks (eg shopping on the
  Internet) with less effort has changed many
  people's lives for the better. In work scenarios
  the time and effort saved by not having to travel
  is also of benefit but in home life and work I
  still feel that we have lost opportunities to
  meet new people and develop our social
  interaction skills.Regards

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What went wrong 3

• Tutor responds with what looks like a question,
  but
• Lots of interesting issues raised here. When I
  posed the question I had in mind "networks" other
  than our immediate data ones - as they are truly
  ubiquiteous. The "double edged" nature of this
  technology (and all other of course) is
  significant. Perhaps this might be worth
  considering in relation to VB ?
• At this point conversation stopped

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What went wrong 4

• The final straw a return to structure. The
  titles of the remaining five postings
• Weeks materials   
•    Re Weeks materials     
•    Re Weeks materials    
• Re Weeks materials-Partially Fixed    
• Re Week 2 materials OK

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Stopping and starting questions and answers
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Student A opens it up

• My doubt is, if that kind of human interaction is
  the best for learning. Can we interact in the
  same way as we do in the face to face
  interaction?Is it right to erase the
  communication that people have when they are
  together? For example when we were in school
  except for learning how to count and read we also
  learnt how to act and behave with our classmates
  and our teachers.In a way we learnt how to behave
  in a small society. And that kind of learning i
  think that it is very important.Isn't it?

Great leading questions
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Student B closes it down

• i think i know your concern.you are afraid that
  in delving into new ways of learning, our
  socialization process is at stake.I think we move
  along with time,because the world that we live in
  is creating our identity.We can refuse not to go
  with the flow.Yet, we will find that we will be
  left behind.And no man is an island. The only way
  is to crate a program where the old and young can
  communicate online and build a communitywhere you
  can meet and socialize just like face to face
  interaction.Then, we will preserve the cultural
  values and socializing ethics could be learned at
  the same time

stoppers
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Tutor steps in

• Some very interesting points raised here. Even
  were we to achieve something like Star Trek
  holo-decks, with space, texture, smell and so on
  duplicated so that it could not be distinguished
  from reality, would it be the same? My suspicion
  is that it wouldn't. Would it be as valuable? Why
  not?

starters
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Student C closes it again

• I agree with you I don't think online
  communication could ever be like a face to face
  communication as you would always be talking to a
  machine even if it has your mother face and
  smells like her it is not her it is a virtuale
  image of her. Face to face communication make you
  able to express feelings in a completely
  different way it is not just talking but seeing
  perceiving, listening.

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So what happens next?

• Open?
• Leave closed?
• Start afresh?
• Summarise?
• You decide!

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Building on experience

• Make sure early tasks are not too
  challenging/exposing
• State the rules of engagement, e.g. when you are
  available
• If no-one is contributing ask direct questions
• Always finish a posting with a question

• Discussions seem to work best in groups of about
  4
• Dont interrupt unless asked or you need to
  redirect
• Provide opportunities to reflect
• Say when to stop

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Intermission
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Part III do something impossible

• Could this work for you?

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Two tasks

• Think of something you teach/have been taught/can
  imagine being taught that could not possibly in a
  million years work via a discussion forum
• Now work out how it could

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Plenary
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References

• Moore, M. G. and Kearsley, G. (1996) Distance
  Education A Systems View, Wadsworth, Belmont.
• Salmon, G. (2000) E-moderating The Key to
  Teaching and Learning Online, Kogan Page, London.

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More interesting reading

• Simpson, O. (2002) Supporting Students in Online,
  Open and Distance Learning, Kogan Page, London.

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Thank you

• jon.dron_at_brighton.ac.uk
• http//www.cmis.brighton.ac.uk/staff/jd29/