Socrates and Plato

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Socrates and Plato

• The Origin of Philosophy

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Origin of Western Philosophy

• Religion and Mythology
• Greek City-States
• Athenian Democracy
• Thales (640-546 BC)
• Materialists
• Reason and Metaphysics

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Socrates and Plato

• 470-399 BC
• Primarily concerned with ethical questions
• Socratic Method
• Did not write any philosophical texts

• 427-347 BC
• Socrates student
• Documented Socrates life and philosophy
• Developed his own philosophical ideas

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Approaching the EuthyphroProviding a
philosophical context
What would you do with Gyges Ring ?
5
Socrates and Euthyphro

• Setting Outside the courthouse.
• Socrates is being indicted for corrupting the
  youth, inventing new gods, and not believing in
  the gods of the city.
• Euthyphro is prosecuting his own father for
  murder.

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Ethical Questions Conflicting Duties

• In determining whether to prosecute, Euthyphro
  says, one should only ask whether the killer
  acted justly or not.
• Ones duty is to justice above family.
• Antigone and conflicting duties.
• What do you think?

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The Search for Piety

• Socrates says only a person far advanced in
  wisdom would prosecute his own father.
• Euthyphro claims to have knowledge of piety.
• Such knowledge would help Socrates in court.
• Socrates desires to be Euthyphros pupil.

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What is the form of piety?

• Socrates asks, what kind of thing do you say
  that godliness and ungodliness are, both as
  regards murder and other things or is the pious
  not the same and alike in every action, and the
  impious the opposite of all that is pious and
  like itself, and everything that is to be impious
  presents us with one form or appearance in so far
  as it is impious?

Piety
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First Definition

• Euthyphro
• What I am doing now, to prosecute the wrong
  doer.
• Euthyphro is following the example of Zeus, who
  bound his own father for unjustly swallowing his
  own sons.

• Socrates
• I did not bid you to tell me one or two of the
  many pious actions, but the form itself.
• Socrates is suspicious of Euthyphros views of
  the gods.
• Do the gods fight?

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Second Definition

• Euthyphro
• What is dear to the gods is pious, what is not
  is impious.

• Socrates
• Gods have different views about what is pious and
  impious.

The same things then are loved by the gods and
hated by the gods . . . And
the same things would be both pious and impious.
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Third Definition

• Euthyphro
• The pious is what all the gods love and the
  opposite, what all the gods hate, is impious.

• Socrates
• Is the pious loved by the gods because it is
  pious, or is it pious because it is loved by the
  gods?

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The Third Definition Problems

• If the gods love the pious because it is pious,
  then we have not determined what makes it pious.
• If the pious is pious because it is loved by the
  gods, then piety depends on the will of the gods.
  
• Do the gods create morality? If so, then morality
  seems to have no fixed standards.

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Religion and Morality

• Debate in Medieval Philosophy
• Voluntarism Moral standards are created by Gods
  will.
• God is not limited by morality.
• Is morality dependent upon religion?
• What do you think?

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The Dialogue Continues

• Socrates
• Now, if you will, do not hide things from me,
  but tell me from the beginning what piety is.

• Euthyphro
• I have no way of telling you what I have in
  mind, for whatever proposition we put forward
  goes around and refuses to stay put.

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Piety and Justice

• Socrates asks whether piety is simply a part of
  justice, or is identical with justice.
• Euthyphro claims piety is the part of justice
  concerned with the care of the gods.

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And so we return . . .

• Socrates
• Is caring for gods the same as improving?
• Is service some sort of trading between gods and
  men?
• But what makes piety pleasing to the gods?

• Euthyphro
• No. The gods are not improved by us.
• Perhaps. But it is to do things that please the
  gods.
• Time to go.

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What do you think?

• Is there an answer that would satisfy Socrates?
• If not, what is the purpose of questioning?
• Does Socrates believe Euthyphro is wise?
• How do you feel about Socrates? Explain.

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