Title: TF Professional Recognition
1TF Professional Recognition
- 42nd ECCE-meeting in Istanbul Nov. 2005
- Chairman Carsten Ahrens
- Vice-chaiman Jiri Plicka
- Agenda
2Agenda TF Professional Recognition
- Members of TF
- Minutes of TF-meeting in Tallinn
- Business plan 2005/2006
- Presentation of 2nd version of Common European
platform
3Agenda TF Professional Recognition
- 5. Steps forward
- - new proposal
- - discussion with other organisations
- (FEANI, ECEC, ...?)
- - visit to Brusseles
4Agenda TF Professional Recognition
- 6. Election of new
- - chairman
- - vice-chairman
- 7. Conclusion, results to General Assembly
5(No Transcript)
6Business Plan 2005/2006TF Professional
Recognition
- - 24. Nov. 2005
- Visit to Berlin by chairman
- Discussion with president of BIngK, Germany
- Discussion with president of ECEC
7Business Plan 2005/2006TF Professional
Recognition
- - Jan./Febr. 2006
- Visit to Brussels by chairman and K.H. Zachmann
- Discussion with
- - Ms Heidman, EU-commission
- - FEANI, Secretary General Ph. Wauters
- - EFCA, Secretary General P. v. d. Putten
8Business Plan 2005/2006TF Professional
Recognition
- - March 2006
- Visit to Düsseldorf by chairman
- Discussion with Dr. Fuchs, president of FEANI
- - May/June 2006
- - Election of new chairman and vice-chairman
- - Take over of responsibilities including
business plan
9 Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
10 EUCEET II 3rd General Assembly
- Specific Project 11
- Academic and Professional Recognition and
- Mobility of Civil Engineers
- Paris, September, 29th 30th, 2005
- Prof. Dr. Carsten Ahrens, FH OOW, Germany
- European Council of Civil Engineers (ECCE)
Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
11Addressees of Questions
- Institutions of Higher Education
- - not having been involved
- National Civil Engineering Associations,
Societies, Organisations etc. - Building/Construction Companies
Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
12Cases as been questioned to companies
- Case 1
- A young civil engineer has just finished his
4-year - education with a Bachelor degree in a Member
State of - the EU e.g. Ireland. His degree is officially
equivalent to a - 4-year education in your home country. He speaks
- sufficiently your language to come up with normal
life. - Would you employ him? Under which conditions?
- If you do, would he be paid the same salary like
the - home civils?
- Do you envisage any problems with your civil
- engineering societies or government?
Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
13Cases as been questioned
- Case 2
- An adult (senior) civil engineer from a EU-member
State - with 10 years of experience in a company and
being a - member of his national civil engineering
association, - chamber or society is asking for a job in your
company. - He is very much skilled but speaks not very
fluently the - language of the host country.
- Would you employ him? Under which conditions?
- If you do, would he be paid the same salary like
the - home civils?
- Do you envisage any problems with your civil
- engineering societies or government?
Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
14Cases as been questioned
- Case 3
- A civil engineer from abroad (not an EU-member
State) - with a 3-year Bachelor education and some years
of - professional experience at home is asking for a
job in your - company. He has got a work permit in your
country, his - degree has been valued at home as equivalent to
the lowest - civil engineering degree in your (host) country.
His language - skills are not too good.
- Would you employ him? Under which conditions?
- If you do, would he be paid the same salary like
the - home civils?
- Do you envisage any problems with your civil
- engineering societies or government?
Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
15Reponses countries and numbers
- Universities due to the changes of the Bologna
process they have no longer been involved, - view on ECCE investigation
- Societies Hungary, Finland, France, Latvia,
Cyprus, - Slovenia, Croatia, Estonia, Germany, Spain
- Companies Spain (11)
- Hungary (summary)
- Slovakia (17)
- Germany (5 and summary North)
- Greece (19)
Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
16Reponses case 1 YoungsterEU-state, Bachelor
(4 ys), language sufficient
- yes no remarks
- Would you employ him? 36 4
- Under which conditions? same like home civils,
but needs knowledge in - contracting and language,
- only as technician
- Would he be paid the same
- salary like the home civils? 36 4 depending
on experience,after - test and period of work
- Any problems with your civil
- engineering societies or
- government? 33 0 acknowledgement
of degree
Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
17Reponses case 2 SeniorEU-state, member of
society, language poor
- yes no remarks
- Would you employ him? 19 9 never
- Under which conditions? language skills are a
must - needs knowledge in
- contracting
- Would he be paid the same
- salary like the home civils? 18 12 depending
on experience,after - test and period of work, never
- Any problems with your civil
- engineering societies or
- government? 7 24 acknowledgement
of degree
Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
18Reponses case 3 Foreigner lowest degree, 3
ys-Bachelor, language poor
- yes no remarks
- Would you employ him? 12 21 never
- Under which conditions? language skills are a
must - needs knowledge in
- contracting
- Would he be paid the same
- salary like the home civils? 17 13 depending
on experience, only after test and period of
work, never - Any problems with your civil
- engineering societies or
- government? 8 15 acknowledgement
of degree
Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
19Reponses societies, organisations, authorities
- Answers have been given by societies,
associations, authorities etc. from - Croatia - Cyprus
- Estonia - Finland
- France - Germany
- Hungary - Latvia
- Slovenia - Spain (3)
Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
20Reponses societies, organisations, authorities
- Youngster Senior Foreigner
- yes no yes no yes no
- License 9 1 10 3 4 9
- conditions has to apply, a lot of buts.. never
- Accreditation 6 4 6 3 3
8 - conditions specialties, language,
experience, aptitude test never - Problems 1 5 5 4
5 - conditions see remarks above
Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
21Reponses all
- Summary
- Not sufficient language skills and knowledge in
contracting procedures are seen to be the biggest
problems. - Employments and salaries depend very much on
experience and specialties. - In nearly all countries the civil engineer has to
undergo individual tests and judgments of
qualification there is no automatism procedure.
Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
22ECCE CE Education System in Europe
- The situation as it was and the status quo of the
academic education of civil engineers at
institutions of higher education are described in
ECCE-chapter 1 (as addendum 1). - It is obvious that most of the ECCE-member states
changed their education system towards the
requirements of the Bologna Process.
Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
23ECCE CE Education System in Europe
- COUNTRY
- Education System
- Environmental Training
- Bologna Process
- Foreign Language
- Croatia
- Cyprus
- Czech
- Estonia
- Finland
- France
- Germany
- etc. (s. paper addendum 1)
Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
24EU-directive
-
- DIRECTIVE 2005/36/EC
- OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIA ENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
- ON THE RECOGNITION OF PROFESSIONAL QUALIFICATIONS
-
25EU-directive
- EN
- PE CONS 3627/05
- EUROPEAN UNION
- THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT
- THE COUNCIL
- Strasbourg, 7 September 2005
- 2002/0061 COD LEX 637 PE-CONS 3627/05
- ETS 12 CODEC 405
26Questions formulated in ECCE
- The questions are as follows
- How does the EU-directive COM (2002) 119
influence mutual professional recognition? - Does it reflect the appropriate higher education
of civil engineers? - Does it support the cross border settlement and
delivering of services of civil engineers? - What are the benefits of a common European
platform for (civil) engineers? - Who can work out and/or give advice for building
such a platform? - How many civil engineers will have profits from
such a directive? - How can quality be assured in relation to
international registers?
Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
27EU-directive on Professional Qualifications
- HAVE ADOPTED THIS DIRECTIVE
- Title I
- General provisions
- Article 1
- Purpose
- This Directive establishes rules according to
which a Member State which makes access to or
pursuit of a regulated profession in its
territory contingent upon possession of specific
professional qualifications (referred to
hereinafter as the Host Member State") shall
recognise professional qualifications obtained in
one or more other Member States (referred to
hereinafter as the Home Member State") and which
allow the holder of the said qualifications to
pursue the same profession there, for access to
and pursuit of that profession.
Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
28EU-directive on Professional Qualifications (2)
- Article 4
- Effects of recognition
- 1.The recognition of professional qualifications
by the host Member State allows the beneficiary
to gain access in that Member State to the same
profession as that for which he is - qualified in the home Member State and to pursue
it in the host Member State under the same
conditions as its nationals. - 2.For the purposes of this Directive,the
profession which the applicant wishes to pursue
in the host Member State is the same as that for
which he is qualified in his home Member State if
the activities covered are comparable.
Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
29ECCE Recognition and Protection of Title
- The situation in Europe concerning this question
is best described by showing a picture of great
variety in procedures of national recognition and
protection of titles. There are countries where
the profession of civil engineers is - - regulated and the title of (civil) engineer is
protected - - not regulated and the title of (civil) engineer
is not protected - - a mixture of both.
- In detail this situation is shown in
ECCE-chapter 3 (as addendum 3). This overview
makes clear that it is still difficult to find a
common way or - with respect to the EU-directive
on Professional Qualification platform for
mutual recognition.
Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
30ECCE Professional Organisations and Registration
- Very closely connected to the question of
recognition and protection of professional title
of civil engineers is the question whether
professional organizations require membership or
the other way round whether registration of
civil engineers is obligatory in their country. - In detail this situation is shown in the
ECCE-chapter 7 (as addendum 4), which is also
part of the ECCE-publication 2005.
Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
31EU-directive on Professional Qualifications (3)
- Article 11 Levels of Qualification
- (a), (b), (c) are not concerning higher education
- (d) a diploma certifying successful completion of
training at post secondary level of - at least three and not more than four years
duration, - or of an equivalent duration on a part time
basis, a university - or establishment of higher education or another
establishment - providing the same level of training,as well as
the professional - training which may be required in addition to
that post - secondary course .....
Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
32EU-directive on Professional Qualifications (4)
- (e) diploma certifying that the holder has
successfully - completed a post secondary course of
- at least four years duration,
- or of an equivalent duration on a part time
basis, at a university or establishment of higher
education or another establishment of equivalent
level and, where appropriate, that he has
successfully completed the professional training
required in addition to the post secondary course.
Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
33ECCE Undergraduate and Graduate Training
- The new approach of educating a (civil
engineering) profession is to speak about
academic education at an institution of higher
education and training. - This training as part of awarding an academic
degree belongs to the undergraduate training.
Professional recognition more and more needs
graduate training, too. The actual situation
concerning professional oriented training is
described in ECCE-chapter 4 (as addendum 2).
Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
34EU-directive Common Platforms
- Article 15
- Waiving of compensation measures on the basis of
common platforms - 1.For the purpose of this Article,"common
platforms - is defined as a
- set of criteria of professional qualifications
- which are suitable for compensating for
substantial differences - which have been identified between the training
requirements - existing in the various Member States for a given
profession.
Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
35EU-directive Common Platforms (2)
- Article 15
- Waiving of compensation measures on the basis of
common platforms - These substantial differences shall be identified
by comparison - between the duration and contents of the training
in at - least two thirds of the Member States,
- including all Member States which regulate
thisprofession. - The differences in the contents of the training
may result - from substantial differences in the scope of the
professional activities.
Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
36ECCE Common Platform
- The Professional Formation Framework of Civil
Engineers of ECCE have been devised - to contain sufficient flexibility to meet the
national requirements of the - different Member States and ..
- to take into account the two different
education/training levels at institutions - of higher education as described in the
directive
Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
37ECCE Common Platform (2)
- Civil Engineers with a Master Degree
- (fulfilment of 2nd cycle descriptors/degree)
- B. Civil Engineers with a Bachelor Degree
- (fulfilment of 1st cycle descriptors/degree)
- 3 years of professional (guided) experience
- Member of a society/association etc. in home
country
Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
38FEANI Platform
- Formular
- B 3U 2(U/T/E) 2E
- B completed secondary education
- U 1 year university education
- T (1 year) Training
- E (1 year) professional experience
- Distinction between a
- - more application oriented engineer or a
- - more research oriented engineer
Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW