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TF Professional Recognition

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Minutes of TF-meeting in Tallinn. Business plan 2005/2006 ... conditions has to apply, a lot of buts.. never. Accreditation 6 4 6 3 3 8 ... – PowerPoint PPT presentation

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Title: TF Professional Recognition


1
TF Professional Recognition
  • 42nd ECCE-meeting in Istanbul Nov. 2005
  • Chairman Carsten Ahrens
  • Vice-chaiman Jiri Plicka
  • Agenda

2
Agenda TF Professional Recognition
  • Members of TF
  • Minutes of TF-meeting in Tallinn
  • Business plan 2005/2006
  • Presentation of 2nd version of Common European
    platform

3
Agenda TF Professional Recognition
  • 5. Steps forward
  • - new proposal
  • - discussion with other organisations
  • (FEANI, ECEC, ...?)
  • - visit to Brusseles

4
Agenda TF Professional Recognition
  • 6. Election of new
  • - chairman
  • - vice-chairman
  • 7. Conclusion, results to General Assembly

5
(No Transcript)
6
Business Plan 2005/2006TF Professional
Recognition
  • - 24. Nov. 2005
  • Visit to Berlin by chairman
  • Discussion with president of BIngK, Germany
  • Discussion with president of ECEC

7
Business Plan 2005/2006TF Professional
Recognition
  • - Jan./Febr. 2006
  • Visit to Brussels by chairman and K.H. Zachmann
  • Discussion with
  • - Ms Heidman, EU-commission
  • - FEANI, Secretary General Ph. Wauters
  • - EFCA, Secretary General P. v. d. Putten

8
Business Plan 2005/2006TF Professional
Recognition
  • - March 2006
  • Visit to Düsseldorf by chairman
  • Discussion with Dr. Fuchs, president of FEANI
  • - May/June 2006
  • - Election of new chairman and vice-chairman
  • - Take over of responsibilities including
    business plan

9

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
10
EUCEET II 3rd General Assembly
  • Specific Project 11
  • Academic and Professional Recognition and
  • Mobility of Civil Engineers
  • Paris, September, 29th 30th, 2005
  • Prof. Dr. Carsten Ahrens, FH OOW, Germany
  • European Council of Civil Engineers (ECCE)

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
11
Addressees of Questions
  • Institutions of Higher Education
  • - not having been involved
  • National Civil Engineering Associations,
    Societies, Organisations etc.
  • Building/Construction Companies

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
12
Cases as been questioned to companies
  • Case 1
  • A young civil engineer has just finished his
    4-year
  • education with a Bachelor degree in a Member
    State of
  • the EU e.g. Ireland. His degree is officially
    equivalent to a
  • 4-year education in your home country. He speaks
  • sufficiently your language to come up with normal
    life.
  • Would you employ him? Under which conditions?
  • If you do, would he be paid the same salary like
    the
  • home civils?
  • Do you envisage any problems with your civil
  • engineering societies or government?

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
13
Cases as been questioned
  • Case 2
  • An adult (senior) civil engineer from a EU-member
    State
  • with 10 years of experience in a company and
    being a
  • member of his national civil engineering
    association,
  • chamber or society is asking for a job in your
    company.
  • He is very much skilled but speaks not very
    fluently the
  • language of the host country.
  • Would you employ him? Under which conditions?
  • If you do, would he be paid the same salary like
    the
  • home civils?
  • Do you envisage any problems with your civil
  • engineering societies or government?

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
14
Cases as been questioned
  • Case 3
  • A civil engineer from abroad (not an EU-member
    State)
  • with a 3-year Bachelor education and some years
    of
  • professional experience at home is asking for a
    job in your
  • company. He has got a work permit in your
    country, his
  • degree has been valued at home as equivalent to
    the lowest
  • civil engineering degree in your (host) country.
    His language
  • skills are not too good.
  • Would you employ him? Under which conditions?
  • If you do, would he be paid the same salary like
    the
  • home civils?
  • Do you envisage any problems with your civil
  • engineering societies or government?

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
15
Reponses countries and numbers
  • Universities due to the changes of the Bologna
    process they have no longer been involved,
  • view on ECCE investigation
  • Societies Hungary, Finland, France, Latvia,
    Cyprus,
  • Slovenia, Croatia, Estonia, Germany, Spain
  • Companies Spain (11)
  • Hungary (summary)
  • Slovakia (17)
  • Germany (5 and summary North)
  • Greece (19)

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
16
Reponses case 1 YoungsterEU-state, Bachelor
(4 ys), language sufficient
  • yes no remarks
  • Would you employ him? 36 4
  • Under which conditions? same like home civils,
    but needs knowledge in
  • contracting and language,
  • only as technician
  • Would he be paid the same
  • salary like the home civils? 36 4 depending
    on experience,after
  • test and period of work
  • Any problems with your civil
  • engineering societies or
  • government? 33 0 acknowledgement
    of degree

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
17
Reponses case 2 SeniorEU-state, member of
society, language poor
  • yes no remarks
  • Would you employ him? 19 9 never
  • Under which conditions? language skills are a
    must
  • needs knowledge in
  • contracting
  • Would he be paid the same
  • salary like the home civils? 18 12 depending
    on experience,after
  • test and period of work, never
  • Any problems with your civil
  • engineering societies or
  • government? 7 24 acknowledgement
    of degree

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
18
Reponses case 3 Foreigner lowest degree, 3
ys-Bachelor, language poor
  • yes no remarks
  • Would you employ him? 12 21 never
  • Under which conditions? language skills are a
    must
  • needs knowledge in
  • contracting
  • Would he be paid the same
  • salary like the home civils? 17 13 depending
    on experience, only after test and period of
    work, never
  • Any problems with your civil
  • engineering societies or
  • government? 8 15 acknowledgement
    of degree

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
19
Reponses societies, organisations, authorities
  • Answers have been given by societies,
    associations, authorities etc. from
  • Croatia - Cyprus
  • Estonia - Finland
  • France - Germany
  • Hungary - Latvia
  • Slovenia - Spain (3)

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
20
Reponses societies, organisations, authorities
  • Youngster Senior Foreigner
  • yes no yes no yes no
  • License 9 1 10 3 4 9
  • conditions has to apply, a lot of buts.. never
  • Accreditation 6 4 6 3 3
    8
  • conditions specialties, language,
    experience, aptitude test never
  • Problems 1 5 5 4
    5
  • conditions see remarks above

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
21
Reponses all
  • Summary
  • Not sufficient language skills and knowledge in
    contracting procedures are seen to be the biggest
    problems.
  • Employments and salaries depend very much on
    experience and specialties.
  • In nearly all countries the civil engineer has to
    undergo individual tests and judgments of
    qualification there is no automatism procedure.

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
22
ECCE CE Education System in Europe
  • The situation as it was and the status quo of the
    academic education of civil engineers at
    institutions of higher education are described in
    ECCE-chapter 1 (as addendum 1).
  • It is obvious that most of the ECCE-member states
    changed their education system towards the
    requirements of the Bologna Process.

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
23
ECCE CE Education System in Europe
  • COUNTRY
  • Education System
  • Environmental Training
  • Bologna Process
  • Foreign Language
  • Croatia
  • Cyprus
  • Czech
  • Estonia
  • Finland
  • France
  • Germany
  • etc. (s. paper addendum 1)

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
24
EU-directive
  • DIRECTIVE 2005/36/EC
  • OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIA ENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
  • ON THE RECOGNITION OF PROFESSIONAL QUALIFICATIONS

25
EU-directive
  • EN
  • PE CONS 3627/05
  • EUROPEAN UNION
  • THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT
  • THE COUNCIL
  • Strasbourg, 7 September 2005
  • 2002/0061 COD LEX 637 PE-CONS 3627/05
  • ETS 12 CODEC 405

26
Questions formulated in ECCE
  • The questions are as follows
  • How does the EU-directive COM (2002) 119
    influence mutual professional recognition?
  • Does it reflect the appropriate higher education
    of civil engineers?
  • Does it support the cross border settlement and
    delivering of services of civil engineers?
  • What are the benefits of a common European
    platform for (civil) engineers?
  • Who can work out and/or give advice for building
    such a platform?
  • How many civil engineers will have profits from
    such a directive?
  • How can quality be assured in relation to
    international registers?

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
27
EU-directive on Professional Qualifications
  • HAVE ADOPTED THIS DIRECTIVE
  • Title I
  • General provisions
  • Article 1
  • Purpose
  • This Directive establishes rules according to
    which a Member State which makes access to or
    pursuit of a regulated profession in its
    territory contingent upon possession of specific
    professional qualifications (referred to
    hereinafter as the Host Member State") shall
    recognise professional qualifications obtained in
    one or more other Member States (referred to
    hereinafter as the Home Member State") and which
    allow the holder of the said qualifications to
    pursue the same profession there, for access to
    and pursuit of that profession.

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
28
EU-directive on Professional Qualifications (2)
  • Article 4
  • Effects of recognition
  • 1.The recognition of professional qualifications
    by the host Member State allows the beneficiary
    to gain access in that Member State to the same
    profession as that for which he is
  • qualified in the home Member State and to pursue
    it in the host Member State under the same
    conditions as its nationals.
  • 2.For the purposes of this Directive,the
    profession which the applicant wishes to pursue
    in the host Member State is the same as that for
    which he is qualified in his home Member State if
    the activities covered are comparable.

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
29
ECCE Recognition and Protection of Title
  • The situation in Europe concerning this question
    is best described by showing a picture of great
    variety in procedures of national recognition and
    protection of titles. There are countries where
    the profession of civil engineers is
  • - regulated and the title of (civil) engineer is
    protected
  • - not regulated and the title of (civil) engineer
    is not protected
  • - a mixture of both.
  • In detail this situation is shown in
    ECCE-chapter 3 (as addendum 3). This overview
    makes clear that it is still difficult to find a
    common way or - with respect to the EU-directive
    on Professional Qualification platform for
    mutual recognition.

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
30
ECCE Professional Organisations and Registration
  • Very closely connected to the question of
    recognition and protection of professional title
    of civil engineers is the question whether
    professional organizations require membership or
    the other way round whether registration of
    civil engineers is obligatory in their country.
  • In detail this situation is shown in the
    ECCE-chapter 7 (as addendum 4), which is also
    part of the ECCE-publication 2005.

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
31
EU-directive on Professional Qualifications (3)
  • Article 11 Levels of Qualification
  • (a), (b), (c) are not concerning higher education
  • (d) a diploma certifying successful completion of
    training at post secondary level of
  • at least three and not more than four years
    duration,
  • or of an equivalent duration on a part time
    basis, a university
  • or establishment of higher education or another
    establishment
  • providing the same level of training,as well as
    the professional
  • training which may be required in addition to
    that post
  • secondary course .....

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
32
EU-directive on Professional Qualifications (4)
  • (e) diploma certifying that the holder has
    successfully
  • completed a post secondary course of
  • at least four years duration,
  • or of an equivalent duration on a part time
    basis, at a university or establishment of higher
    education or another establishment of equivalent
    level and, where appropriate, that he has
    successfully completed the professional training
    required in addition to the post secondary course.

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
33
ECCE Undergraduate and Graduate Training
  • The new approach of educating a (civil
    engineering) profession is to speak about
    academic education at an institution of higher
    education and training.
  • This training as part of awarding an academic
    degree belongs to the undergraduate training.
    Professional recognition more and more needs
    graduate training, too. The actual situation
    concerning professional oriented training is
    described in ECCE-chapter 4 (as addendum 2).

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
34
EU-directive Common Platforms
  • Article 15
  • Waiving of compensation measures on the basis of
    common platforms
  • 1.For the purpose of this Article,"common
    platforms
  • is defined as a
  • set of criteria of professional qualifications
  • which are suitable for compensating for
    substantial differences
  • which have been identified between the training
    requirements
  • existing in the various Member States for a given
    profession.

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
35
EU-directive Common Platforms (2)
  • Article 15
  • Waiving of compensation measures on the basis of
    common platforms
  • These substantial differences shall be identified
    by comparison
  • between the duration and contents of the training
    in at
  • least two thirds of the Member States,
  • including all Member States which regulate
    thisprofession.
  • The differences in the contents of the training
    may result
  • from substantial differences in the scope of the
    professional activities.

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
36
ECCE Common Platform
  • The Professional Formation Framework of Civil
    Engineers of ECCE have been devised
  • to contain sufficient flexibility to meet the
    national requirements of the
  • different Member States and ..
  • to take into account the two different
    education/training levels at institutions
  • of higher education as described in the
    directive

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
37
ECCE Common Platform (2)
  • Civil Engineers with a Master Degree
  • (fulfilment of 2nd cycle descriptors/degree)
  • B. Civil Engineers with a Bachelor Degree
  • (fulfilment of 1st cycle descriptors/degree)
  • 3 years of professional (guided) experience
  • Member of a society/association etc. in home
    country

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
38
FEANI Platform
  • Formular
  • B 3U 2(U/T/E) 2E
  • B completed secondary education
  • U 1 year university education
  • T (1 year) Training
  • E (1 year) professional experience
  • Distinction between a
  • - more application oriented engineer or a
  • - more research oriented engineer

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
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