TF Professional Recognition

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TF Professional Recognition

• 42nd ECCE-meeting in Istanbul Nov. 2005
• Chairman Carsten Ahrens
• Vice-chaiman Jiri Plicka
• Agenda

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Agenda TF Professional Recognition

• Members of TF
• Minutes of TF-meeting in Tallinn
• Business plan 2005/2006
• Presentation of 2nd version of Common European
  platform

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Agenda TF Professional Recognition

• 5. Steps forward
• - new proposal
• - discussion with other organisations
• (FEANI, ECEC, ...?)
• - visit to Brusseles

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Agenda TF Professional Recognition

• 6. Election of new
• - chairman
• - vice-chairman
• 7. Conclusion, results to General Assembly
  

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(No Transcript)
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Business Plan 2005/2006TF Professional
Recognition

• - 24. Nov. 2005
• Visit to Berlin by chairman
• Discussion with president of BIngK, Germany
• Discussion with president of ECEC

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Business Plan 2005/2006TF Professional
Recognition

• - Jan./Febr. 2006
• Visit to Brussels by chairman and K.H. Zachmann
• Discussion with
• - Ms Heidman, EU-commission
• - FEANI, Secretary General Ph. Wauters
• - EFCA, Secretary General P. v. d. Putten

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Business Plan 2005/2006TF Professional
Recognition

• - March 2006
• Visit to Düsseldorf by chairman
• Discussion with Dr. Fuchs, president of FEANI
• - May/June 2006
• - Election of new chairman and vice-chairman
• - Take over of responsibilities including
  business plan

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Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
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EUCEET II 3rd General Assembly

• Specific Project 11
• Academic and Professional Recognition and
• Mobility of Civil Engineers
• Paris, September, 29th 30th, 2005
• Prof. Dr. Carsten Ahrens, FH OOW, Germany
• European Council of Civil Engineers (ECCE)

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
11
Addressees of Questions

• Institutions of Higher Education
• - not having been involved
• National Civil Engineering Associations,
  Societies, Organisations etc.
• Building/Construction Companies

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
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Cases as been questioned to companies

• Case 1
• A young civil engineer has just finished his
  4-year
• education with a Bachelor degree in a Member
  State of
• the EU e.g. Ireland. His degree is officially
  equivalent to a
• 4-year education in your home country. He speaks
• sufficiently your language to come up with normal
  life.
• Would you employ him? Under which conditions?
• If you do, would he be paid the same salary like
  the
• home civils?
• Do you envisage any problems with your civil
• engineering societies or government?

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
13
Cases as been questioned

• Case 2
• An adult (senior) civil engineer from a EU-member
  State
• with 10 years of experience in a company and
  being a
• member of his national civil engineering
  association,
• chamber or society is asking for a job in your
  company.
• He is very much skilled but speaks not very
  fluently the
• language of the host country.
• Would you employ him? Under which conditions?
• If you do, would he be paid the same salary like
  the
• home civils?
• Do you envisage any problems with your civil
• engineering societies or government?

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
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Cases as been questioned

• Case 3
• A civil engineer from abroad (not an EU-member
  State)
• with a 3-year Bachelor education and some years
  of
• professional experience at home is asking for a
  job in your
• company. He has got a work permit in your
  country, his
• degree has been valued at home as equivalent to
  the lowest
• civil engineering degree in your (host) country.
  His language
• skills are not too good.
• Would you employ him? Under which conditions?
• If you do, would he be paid the same salary like
  the
• home civils?
• Do you envisage any problems with your civil
• engineering societies or government?

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
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Reponses countries and numbers

• Universities due to the changes of the Bologna
  process they have no longer been involved,
• view on ECCE investigation
• Societies Hungary, Finland, France, Latvia,
  Cyprus,
• Slovenia, Croatia, Estonia, Germany, Spain
• Companies Spain (11)
• Hungary (summary)
• Slovakia (17)
• Germany (5 and summary North)
• Greece (19)

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
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Reponses case 1 YoungsterEU-state, Bachelor
(4 ys), language sufficient

• yes no remarks
• Would you employ him? 36 4
• Under which conditions? same like home civils,
  but needs knowledge in
• contracting and language,
• only as technician
• Would he be paid the same
• salary like the home civils? 36 4 depending
  on experience,after
• test and period of work
• Any problems with your civil
• engineering societies or
• government? 33 0 acknowledgement
  of degree

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
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Reponses case 2 SeniorEU-state, member of
society, language poor

• yes no remarks
• Would you employ him? 19 9 never
• Under which conditions? language skills are a
  must
• needs knowledge in
• contracting
• Would he be paid the same
• salary like the home civils? 18 12 depending
  on experience,after
• test and period of work, never
• Any problems with your civil
• engineering societies or
• government? 7 24 acknowledgement
  of degree

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
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Reponses case 3 Foreigner lowest degree, 3
ys-Bachelor, language poor

• yes no remarks
• Would you employ him? 12 21 never
• Under which conditions? language skills are a
  must
• needs knowledge in
• contracting
• Would he be paid the same
• salary like the home civils? 17 13 depending
  on experience, only after test and period of
  work, never
• Any problems with your civil
• engineering societies or
• government? 8 15 acknowledgement
  of degree

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
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Reponses societies, organisations, authorities

• Answers have been given by societies,
  associations, authorities etc. from
• Croatia - Cyprus
• Estonia - Finland
• France - Germany
• Hungary - Latvia
• Slovenia - Spain (3)

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
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Reponses societies, organisations, authorities

• Youngster Senior Foreigner
• yes no yes no yes no
• License 9 1 10 3 4 9
• conditions has to apply, a lot of buts.. never
• Accreditation 6 4 6 3 3
  8
• conditions specialties, language,
  experience, aptitude test never
• Problems 1 5 5 4
  5
• conditions see remarks above

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
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Reponses all

• Summary
• Not sufficient language skills and knowledge in
  contracting procedures are seen to be the biggest
  problems.
• Employments and salaries depend very much on
  experience and specialties.
• In nearly all countries the civil engineer has to
  undergo individual tests and judgments of
  qualification there is no automatism procedure.

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
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ECCE CE Education System in Europe

• The situation as it was and the status quo of the
  academic education of civil engineers at
  institutions of higher education are described in
  ECCE-chapter 1 (as addendum 1).
• It is obvious that most of the ECCE-member states
  changed their education system towards the
  requirements of the Bologna Process.

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
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ECCE CE Education System in Europe

• COUNTRY
• Education System
• Environmental Training
• Bologna Process
• Foreign Language
• Croatia
• Cyprus
• Czech
• Estonia
• Finland
• France
• Germany
• etc. (s. paper addendum 1)

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
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EU-directive

• DIRECTIVE 2005/36/EC
• OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIA ENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
• ON THE RECOGNITION OF PROFESSIONAL QUALIFICATIONS
  

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EU-directive

• EN
• PE CONS 3627/05
• EUROPEAN UNION
• THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT
• THE COUNCIL
• Strasbourg, 7 September 2005
• 2002/0061 COD LEX 637 PE-CONS 3627/05
• ETS 12 CODEC 405

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Questions formulated in ECCE

• The questions are as follows
• How does the EU-directive COM (2002) 119
  influence mutual professional recognition?
• Does it reflect the appropriate higher education
  of civil engineers?
• Does it support the cross border settlement and
  delivering of services of civil engineers?
• What are the benefits of a common European
  platform for (civil) engineers?
• Who can work out and/or give advice for building
  such a platform?
• How many civil engineers will have profits from
  such a directive?
• How can quality be assured in relation to
  international registers?

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
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EU-directive on Professional Qualifications

• HAVE ADOPTED THIS DIRECTIVE
• Title I
• General provisions
• Article 1
• Purpose
• This Directive establishes rules according to
  which a Member State which makes access to or
  pursuit of a regulated profession in its
  territory contingent upon possession of specific
  professional qualifications (referred to
  hereinafter as the Host Member State") shall
  recognise professional qualifications obtained in
  one or more other Member States (referred to
  hereinafter as the Home Member State") and which
  allow the holder of the said qualifications to
  pursue the same profession there, for access to
  and pursuit of that profession.

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
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EU-directive on Professional Qualifications (2)

• Article 4
• Effects of recognition
• 1.The recognition of professional qualifications
  by the host Member State allows the beneficiary
  to gain access in that Member State to the same
  profession as that for which he is
• qualified in the home Member State and to pursue
  it in the host Member State under the same
  conditions as its nationals.
• 2.For the purposes of this Directive,the
  profession which the applicant wishes to pursue
  in the host Member State is the same as that for
  which he is qualified in his home Member State if
  the activities covered are comparable.

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
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ECCE Recognition and Protection of Title

• The situation in Europe concerning this question
  is best described by showing a picture of great
  variety in procedures of national recognition and
  protection of titles. There are countries where
  the profession of civil engineers is
• - regulated and the title of (civil) engineer is
  protected
• - not regulated and the title of (civil) engineer
  is not protected
• - a mixture of both.
• In detail this situation is shown in
  ECCE-chapter 3 (as addendum 3). This overview
  makes clear that it is still difficult to find a
  common way or - with respect to the EU-directive
  on Professional Qualification platform for
  mutual recognition.

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
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ECCE Professional Organisations and Registration

• Very closely connected to the question of
  recognition and protection of professional title
  of civil engineers is the question whether
  professional organizations require membership or
  the other way round whether registration of
  civil engineers is obligatory in their country.
• In detail this situation is shown in the
  ECCE-chapter 7 (as addendum 4), which is also
  part of the ECCE-publication 2005.

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
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EU-directive on Professional Qualifications (3)

• Article 11 Levels of Qualification
• (a), (b), (c) are not concerning higher education
  
• (d) a diploma certifying successful completion of
  training at post secondary level of
• at least three and not more than four years
  duration,
• or of an equivalent duration on a part time
  basis, a university
• or establishment of higher education or another
  establishment
• providing the same level of training,as well as
  the professional
• training which may be required in addition to
  that post
• secondary course .....

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
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EU-directive on Professional Qualifications (4)

• (e) diploma certifying that the holder has
  successfully
• completed a post secondary course of
• at least four years duration,
• or of an equivalent duration on a part time
  basis, at a university or establishment of higher
  education or another establishment of equivalent
  level and, where appropriate, that he has
  successfully completed the professional training
  required in addition to the post secondary course.

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
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ECCE Undergraduate and Graduate Training

• The new approach of educating a (civil
  engineering) profession is to speak about
  academic education at an institution of higher
  education and training.
• This training as part of awarding an academic
  degree belongs to the undergraduate training.
  Professional recognition more and more needs
  graduate training, too. The actual situation
  concerning professional oriented training is
  described in ECCE-chapter 4 (as addendum 2).

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
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EU-directive Common Platforms

• Article 15
• Waiving of compensation measures on the basis of
  common platforms
• 1.For the purpose of this Article,"common
  platforms
• is defined as a
• set of criteria of professional qualifications
• which are suitable for compensating for
  substantial differences
• which have been identified between the training
  requirements
• existing in the various Member States for a given
  profession.

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
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EU-directive Common Platforms (2)

• Article 15
• Waiving of compensation measures on the basis of
  common platforms
• These substantial differences shall be identified
  by comparison
• between the duration and contents of the training
  in at
• least two thirds of the Member States,
• including all Member States which regulate
  thisprofession.
• The differences in the contents of the training
  may result
• from substantial differences in the scope of the
  professional activities.

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
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ECCE Common Platform

• The Professional Formation Framework of Civil
  Engineers of ECCE have been devised
• to contain sufficient flexibility to meet the
  national requirements of the
• different Member States and ..
• to take into account the two different
  education/training levels at institutions
• of higher education as described in the
  directive

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
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ECCE Common Platform (2)

• Civil Engineers with a Master Degree
• (fulfilment of 2nd cycle descriptors/degree)
• B. Civil Engineers with a Bachelor Degree
• (fulfilment of 1st cycle descriptors/degree)
• 3 years of professional (guided) experience
• Member of a society/association etc. in home
  country

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW
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FEANI Platform

• Formular
• B 3U 2(U/T/E) 2E
• B completed secondary education
• U 1 year university education
• T (1 year) Training
• E (1 year) professional experience
• Distinction between a
• - more application oriented engineer or a
• - more research oriented engineer

Prof. Dr. C. Ahrens FH OOW