PHL105Y Introduction to Philosophy Monday, October 2, 2006

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PHL105Y Introduction to Philosophy Monday,
October 2, 2006

• For Wednesdays class, read to page 31 of the
  Plato book (the first half of the Apology).
• Tutorials continue this Friday. For this week,
  answer one of the following two questions, in
  about 200-250 words (about one typed
  double-spaced page).
• How did Socrates come to the conclusion that
  human wisdom is worth little or nothing? (23a)
• Starting at 26b, Socrates tries to get Meletus to
  clarify what the charges are with respect to
  religion. In the text up to 27e, Socrates argues
  that these charges do not make sense. Explain
  Socrates argument on this point.

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Do you see your student number?

• 990944699
• 994869923
• 995389645
• 993276600
• If your number appears here, you are not
  registered for a tutorial on CCNet. To register,
  follow the CCNet link from my homepage
  (http//www.utm.utoronto.ca/jnagel/).
• Select the Student button on the sidebar, click
  First time here? if you havent already
  created a login, then choose the Personal
  Profile option to select a tutorial.
• All students in this course need to be registered
  in a Friday tutorial to get their work graded.

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Your first essay

• Draft version due October 11, 2006, at the start
  of class upload your paper to www.turnitin.com
  by 11pm October 11. The class ID is 1674578 the
  class password is socrates.
• Your draft version will get only comments (not a
  grade) however, turning in some kind of draft is
  mandatory, if you want your final version to get
  any grade at all.

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The topics

• Topics and instructions are posted on the web at
  http//www.erin.utoronto.ca/jnagel/105/intro.htm

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Platos Euthyphro
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What is piety?

• Socrates does not want Euthyphro to give him an
  example of a pious act he wants Euthyphro to
  explain to him the form itself that makes all
  pious actions pious
• Euthyphro what is dear to the gods is pious,
  what is not is impious (7a)

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Dissent amongst the gods

• Euthyphro what is dear to the gods is pious,
  what is not is impious (7a)
• Given this definition of piety, why is it
  problematic that the gods are in conflict amongst
  themselves?

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Euthyphros revised definition

• what all the gods hate is impious, and what they
  all love is pious, and what some gods love and
  others hate is neither or both (9d)

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Euthyphros revised definition

• what all the gods hate is impious, and what they
  all love is pious, and what some gods love and
  others hate is neither or both (9d)
• Why do the gods love what they do?
• If they all agree about something as worthy of
  their love, is there a reason?

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The famous question

• Is the pious loved by the gods because it is
  pious, or is it pious because it is loved by the
  gods? (10a)

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The famous question

• Is the pious being loved by the gods because it
  is pious, or is it pious because it is being
  loved by the gods? (10a)
• What is the difference between
• (1) something being loved by the gods because it
  is pious, and
• (2) something being pious because it is loved by
  the gods?

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What is the difference between (1) and (2) here?

• 1. Johnny Depp wears fedora hats because they are
  cool.
• 2. Fedora hats are cool because Johnny Depp wears
  them.

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What is the difference between (1) and (2) here?

• 1. Johnny Depp wears fedora hats because they are
  cool.
• 2. Fedora hats are cool because Johnny Depp wears
  them.
• (1) suggests that Johnny Depp recognizes
  coolness.
• (2) suggests that Johnny Depp creates coolness.

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What is the difference between (1) and (2) here?

• 1. Johnny Depp wears fedora hats because they are
  cool.
• 2. Fedora hats are cool because Johnny Depp wears
  them.
• (1) suggests that Johnny Depp recognizes
  coolness. (Intelligently?)
• (2) suggests that Johnny Depp creates coolness.
  (Perhaps arbitrarily?)

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The famous question again

• Is the pious (1) loved by the gods because it is
  pious, or is it (2) pious because it is loved by
  the gods?
• (1) and (2) convey different relationships
  between the nature of what is pious and the
  decisions of the gods (1) gives priority to the
  nature of the pious (so the gods attitudes
  recognize what is pious), and (2) gives priority
  to the attitudes of the gods (so the gods
  attitudes create what is pious)

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Active and passivewhich has priority?

• Active (a) The subject sees the object.
• Passive (b) The object is seen by the subject.
• Does (a) make (b) happen, or does (b) make (a)
  happen?

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Active and passivewhich has priority?

• Active (a) The subject sees the object.
• Passive (b) The object is seen by the subject.
• Does (a) make (b) happen, or does (b) make (a)
  happen?
• Socrates things are seen when someone sees them
  they are carried when someone carries them it
  doesnt make so much sense to say that you see
  something because it is being seen

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Back to the pious 10c

• S Is something loved is either something changed
  or something affected by something?
• E Certainly.
• S So it is in the same case as the things just
  mentioned it is not being loved by those who
  love it because it is something loved, but it is
  something loved because it is being loved by
  them?
• E Necessarily.

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Active and passive

• The gods love certain acts.
• Certain acts are beloved by the gods.
• The active form (1) has priority over the passive
  (2).
• We can ask why (1) is true.

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The pious is beloved by the godsbecause it is
pious

• S What then do we say about the pious,
  Euthyphro? Surely that it is being loved by all
  the gods, according to what you say?
• E Yes.
• S Is it loved because it is pious, or for some
  other reason?
• E For no other reason.
• S It is being loved then because it is pious,
  but it is not pious because it is being loved?

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Pious ? God-beloved

• TRUE the pious is beloved because it is pious
• FALSE the god-beloved is beloved because it is
  god-beloved
• Conclusion piety is loved because it is of a
  nature to be loved but we still dont know what
  that nature is

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The other side of the question

• Could Euthyphro have done a better job of
  defending the idea that piety is whatever is
  beloved by the gods?

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The other side of the question

• Could Euthyphro have done a better job of
  defending the idea that piety is whatever is
  beloved by the gods?
• Did Euthyphro go wrong in allowing that there is
  a reason why the gods love what is pious?

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Piety and justice

• Socrates and Euthyphro agree that all pious acts
  are just, but allow that justice is a broader
  term than piety piety is one branch of justice.

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Euthyphros new definition of piety

• the godly and the pious is the part of the just
  that is concerned with the care of the gods,
  while that concerned with the care of men is the
  remaining part of justice. (12e)

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Euthyphros new definition of piety

• the godly and the pious is the part of the just
  that is concerned with the care of the gods,
  while that concerned with the care of men is the
  remaining part of justice. (12e)
• Q What kind of care do the gods need from us?

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Euthyphros next definition of piety

• Piety is a knowledge of how to sacrifice and
  pray. (14c)
• Q So we give and take from the gods? Is piety a
  sort of trading skill between gods and men?

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Back to the old definition of piety

• If piety is a sort of trading skill between gods
  and men, what benefits do the gods need from us?
• Euthyphro suggests that the gods perhaps dont
  need stuff from us, but might be pleased by our
  worship. Our worship is what is beloved by the
  gods. Piety is what is dear to or beloved by the
  gods.