Title: PROPERTY%20D%20SLIDES
1PROPERTY D SLIDES
- 2-9-16
- NATIONAL BAGEL DAY
2Tuesday Feb 9 - Music to Accompany Midkiff Tina
Turner, Private Dancer (1984)
- Lunch Today
- Meet on Bricks _at_ 1225
- Bodzin Friedland Gordon
- Helmy Knox Parikh Young
3Previously in Property D
- Continued Work on Chapter 1
- MWs Right to Exclude Problems
- Review Problem 1K(ii) (Using FL Statutes)
- Review Problem 1J (1st Lawyering Q)
- Right to Exclude Parcels Open to Public
- Your Moneys No Good Here Continuum
- Common Law (No Limits or Innkeepers Rule)
- Civil Rights Statutes
- Brooks
- JMB First Amendment Access to Malls
- Relevant Interests on Both Sides
- NJ Calif use state 1st Amdts to give access
4Previously in Property D
- Introduction to Chapter 2
- Federal Court Deference to State Legislation
the Rational Basis Test - The Eminent Domain Power Its Limits
- Takings Clause of 5th Amdt
- Just Compensation as a Limit
- Democracy as a Limit
- Possible Need for Additional Limits When Money
Not at Issue We Dont Trust Democratic Process
5Property Open to the Public the Right to
Exclude
- Generally Your Moneys No Good Here
- Free Speech Rights
- JMB (including Schmid) DQ 1.24-1.28 (OLYMPIC)
- (Continued)
- Review Problem 1I (BADLANDS) (Thursday)
- Review Problem 1K(i) (OLYMPIC) (Thursday ?
Friday)
6Right to Exclude Parcels Open to the
PublicLogic of JMB Reasoning (Schmid Analysis)
- JMB Follows Applies Schmid (NJ 1980)
- Schmid Free Speech access to Princeton Univ.
- (Private property often open to public)
- Case described in detail on P89-90
- Note USSCt dismissed appeal in Schmid (see cite
on P89) - Appeal raised same type of fedl property rts
claim made unsuccessfully in Pruneyard - As could perhaps try re Shack
7Right to Exclude Parcels Open to the
PublicLogic of JMB Reasoning (Schmid Analysis)
- Schmid Test (P90)
- Use to decide when 1st Amdt requires access to
private property open (for some purposes) to
public - Can use by analogy for other limits on Right to
Exclude (e.g., for Qs raised in Brooks or Shack) - Once access allowed, test largely unhelpful for
deciding what restrictions allowable Schmid
just says they must be reasonable
8Right to Exclude Parcels Open to the
PublicLogic of JMB Reasoning (Schmid Analysis)
- Schmid Test (P90)
- (1) Normal Use of Private Property in Q
- (2) Extent Nature of Public Invitation
- (3) Purpose of the expressional activity in
relation to both the public private use of the
property - Meaning of 1st Two Factors Relatively Clear
9Right to Exclude Parcels Open to the
PublicLogic of JMB Reasoning (Schmid Analysis)
- Schmid Test (P90)
- (3) Purpose of the expressional activity in
relation to both the public private use of the
property - (P91) This factor examines the compatibility
of the free speech sought with the uses of the
property. Means? - 2014 student argument compatibility as
subjective seeming to fit (like human
relationship) (reasonable interpretation of
language) - BUT Discussion in JMB seems to focus more on
whether speech causes objective harm to existing
uses.
10Right to Exclude Parcels Open to the
PublicLogic of JMB Reasoning (Schmid Analysis)
- JMB Follows Applies Schmid
- in Granting Free Speech Access to Malls
- Note importance of analogy to town square.
- Note importance of very broad invitation by
malls. - Court (P92) explicitly says it is drawing on
common law as well as NJ 1st Amdt - Cites/discusses Shack
- Again suggests can use JMB/Schmid to support
other kinds of limits on rt excl besides 1st Amdt - Qs on JMB Reasoning?
11Right to Exclude Parcels Open to the PublicJMB,
Schmid Scope of Right to Exclude
- What Kind of Exam Problems Might You Expect
- Assume JMB or Pruneyard Applies What
Specifically Can/Cant Mall Owners Do to Address
Protestors - Use Schmid JMB to Help Determine if Right to
Exclude Should be Limited in Particular Context
for Speech Rights or Other Public Policy
Considerations
12Right to Exclude Parcels Open to the PublicJMB,
Schmid Scope of Right to Exclude
- Assume JMB or Pruneyard Applies What
Specifically Can/Cant Mall Owners Do to Address
Protestors - Review Problems Addressing
- Rev Prob 1G (Short Problem) DF This Week
- Rev Prob 1I (Lawyering) Thursday
- Part of Rev Prob 1K(Part i) (Issue-Spotter)
Thursday ? Friday - Note Parallel to Allowable Regulations/Restriction
s in MW Problems under Shack FL Statute
13OLYMPIC DQ1.26
EEL GLACIER
14Right to Exclude Parcels Open to the PublicJMB,
Schmid Scope of Right to Exclude (OLYMPIC)
- Assume JMB or Pruneyard Applies What
Specifically Can/Cant Mall Owners Do to Address
Protestors - DQ1.26 You represent the owners of a relatively
small NJ mall. What would you tell your clients
re the following Qs about J.M.B.? - Assume no additional cases or regulations
- Helpful to point to specific evidence from facts,
language, logic of case. - OK to use common sense (e.g., seems pretty
unlikely that could limit protestor access to top
floor of parking garage).
15Right to Exclude Parcels Open to the PublicJMB,
Schmid Scope of Right to Exclude
DQ1.26(a) (Olympic) Does case open up all malls
in the state to protestors or will its
application be determined on a case-by-case basis
for each mall? (Evidence from JMB?)
16Right to Exclude Parcels Open to the PublicJMB,
Schmid Scope of Right to Exclude
- DQ1.26(a) (Olympic) Will application of JMB be
determined on a case-by-case basis? Evidence
includes - All malls addressed in original case quite large
- Regional or Community Shopping Centers
- At least 71 stores 27 acres (P87-88)
- Ruling limited to leafletting at such centers
(1st paragraph P86) - BUT Likely no need to redo analysis for other
large malls.
17Right to Exclude Parcels Open to the PublicJMB,
Schmid Scope of Right to Exclude
- DQ1.26(a) (Olympic) Will application of JMB be
determined on a case-by-case basis? Evidence
includes - Schmid analysis consistent with case-by-case
- Check for smaller public invitation than large
malls - Check for less compatibility than large malls
- Note No need to redo Schmid analysis for large
malls or for large open private universities
(like UM or Princeton) unless good reason to
believe invitation or compatibility different.
18Right to Exclude Parcels Open to the PublicJMB,
Schmid Scope of Right to Exclude
- MAF DQ1.26(b) Assuming the case governs, do all
political/protest groups have to be treated
alike? - Evidence includes
- Common Sense Can exclude groups if significant
problems during past visits. - Otherwise Basis in 1st Amdt
- Might suggest treating all groups/messages the
same - BUT (P92) refers to anti-war protest as most
substantial and central to the purpose of 1st
Amdt interests leaves room for argument about
other issues.
19Right to Exclude Parcels Open to the PublicJMB,
Schmid Scope of Right to Exclude
- DQ1.26(b) Assuming the case governs, do all
political/protest groups have to be treated
alike? - Common Sense Can exclude if significant problems
during past visits. - Basis in 1st Amdt suggests treating all
groups/messages the same. - Hard Q not addressed in JMB or Pruneyard
- Treat differently if targeting particular stores
in mall? - Different Treatment My Left Side of Room
- No Different Treatment My Right Side of Room
20Right to Exclude Parcels Open to the PublicJMB,
Schmid Scope of Right to Exclude
- Hard Q not addressed in JMB or Pruneyard
- Should you treat differently if targeting
particular stores in mall? - See Fashion Valley Mall v. NLRB, 172 P.3d 742
(Cal. 2007) - Forbids mall from excluding peaceful protestors
because they are requesting that shoppers boycott
a particular mall tenant. - No specific info on whether mall is allowed to
place special restrictions on where protestors
can operate in relation to targeted business
21Right to Exclude Parcels Open to the PublicJMB,
Schmid Scope of Right to Exclude
- DQ1.26(c) (Olympic) Under JMB, what kinds of
limits or requirements can the mall impose on
protestors? - Possible Examples?
- Then Well Look at Language from Case
22Right to Exclude Parcels Open to the PublicJMB,
Schmid Scope of Right to Exclude
- DQ1.26(c) (Olympic) Under JMB, what kinds of
limits or requirements can the mall impose on
protestors? Possible Examples - Must stay in designated area.
- Limit on of protestors per group.
- Limits re noise level, politeness, etc.
- Must clean up leaflets left around
- Reasonable deposit for plausible/provable
clean-up/security costs.
23Right to Exclude Parcels Open to the PublicJMB,
Schmid Scope of Right to Exclude
- DQ1.26(c) (Olympic) Under Language of JMB, what
kinds of limits or requirements can the mall
impose on protestors? - Most important phrase likely is
- Malls have full power to adopt time, place
manner restrictions that will assure that
leafletting does not interfere with the shopping
centers business while preserving the
effectiveness of plaintiffs exercise of their
constitutional right. (P91 right before C) - Time, Place Manner TPM Restrictions
Standard 1st Amdmt Category (in contrast to
Subject Matter or Viewpoint Restrictions)
24Right to Exclude Parcels Open to the PublicJMB,
Schmid Scope of Right to Exclude
- DQ1.26(c) (Olympic) Under JMB, what kinds of
limits or requirements can the mall impose on
protestors? - Most important phrase likely is
- (P91) Malls have full power to adopt time,
place manner restrictions that will assure
that - leafletting does not interfere with the shopping
centers business while - preserving the effectiveness of Ps exercise of
their constitutional right. - Incorporates/balances interests of both sides.
- Other Evidence from JMB?
25Right to Exclude Parcels Open to the PublicJMB,
Schmid Scope of Right to Exclude
- DQ1.26(c) Permissible limits or requirements?
- Other Evidence from JMB?
- General standards
- P86 reasonable conditions
- P89 describing Schmid reasonable regulations
- P90 quoting Schmid suitable restrictions
- P87 conditions noted that presumably go too far
- cant approach shoppers
- insurance coverage FOR 1m
- P86 case seems to be limited to passing out
leaflets related activity suggests, e.g.,
might be OK to ban harassment or loud noises
26Right to Exclude Parcels Open to the PublicJMB,
Schmid Scope of Right to Exclude
- DQ1.26(c) Permissible limits or requirements?
- Additional Info from Green Party (NJ 2000) (Note
5_at_P94-95) - General standards
- P95 Again Balance rights of both sides in
evaluating regulations - P95 Fairly allocated fee OK if objectively
related to evidence of real costs stemming from
leafletting and presumably other speech
activity - Conditions rejected
- insurance coverage for 1million
- requirement of hold harmless clause
- Limit on access to a few days per year
27Right to Exclude Parcels Open to the PublicJMB,
Schmid Scope of Right to Exclude
- Qs on Permissible Requirements or JMB?
28Right to Exclude Parcels Open to the PublicJMB,
Schmid Scope of Right to Exclude
- What Kind of Problems Might You Expect
- Assume JMB or Pruneyard Applies What
Specifically Can/Cant Mall Owners Do to Address
Protestors - Use Schmid JMB to Help Determine if Right to
Exclude Should be Limited in Particular Context
for Speech Rights or Other Public Policy
Considerations
29Right to Exclude Parcels Open to the PublicJMB,
Schmid Scope of Right to Exclude
- UseSchmid JMB to Help Determine if Right to
Exclude Should be Limited in Particular Context
for Speech Rights or Other Public Policy
Considerations - Im not going to ask you to decide from scratch
what scope of states 1st Amdt should be. - Might ask you to assume Schmid/JMB are good law
apply to different claims of free speech access
(e.g., Rev. Prob 1K(Part i)). - Might give you more general Q on scope of right
to exclude you could use Schmid/JMB as one way
to analyze (e.g., Rev. Prob. 1H). - For on your own next slide with list of some
relevant considerations
30Right to Exclude Parcels Open to the PublicJMB,
Schmid Scope of Right to Exclude
- Scope of Right to Exclude in New Situations
Possible Relevant Considerations (Could Also Use
for Non-1st Amdt Speech Access) - Protection of Disadvantaged Groups. E.g.,
- Anti-Discrimination Law
- Shack MWs
- Relationship to Govt or Law
- Implied K from Support of Govt for creation or
operation of enterprise - B/c Rt to Excl derives from state common law in
1st instance, arguably cant be used in way that
violates public policy (Shack) - Economic Concerns
- Monopoly Concern w Innkeeper Rule
- Furthering Commerce w Innkeeper Rule
- Protecting Os Economic Interests (Shack JMB)
-
31Right to Exclude Parcels Open to the PublicJMB,
Schmid Scope of Right to Exclude
- DQ 1.27 Apply Schmid JMB to Issue in Shack
- (1) Apply Schmid Test
- (2) Apply JMB
- Compare Shack to Facts of JMB
- Relevant Language Policy Concerns from JMB
- Ill Leave for You DF
- Provide Write-Up in Future Info Memo
32Right to Exclude Parcels Open to the PublicJMB,
Schmid Scope of Right to Exclude
- DQ1.28. Can you formulate a rule or a set of
standards for when a business generally open to
the public should be prevented from excluding
particular individuals or activities? - Again, Leave for You
- Prior Years Some students submitted written
answers - Ill give you write up of submissions from
prior classes in Info Memo on Chapter One
33Property Open to the Public the Right to
Exclude
- Generally Your Moneys No Good Here
- Free Speech Rights
- JMB (including Schmid) DQ 1.24-1.28 (OLYMPIC)
- PREVIEW OF PROBLEMS FOR THURSDAY
- Review Problem 1I (BADLANDS)
- Review Problem 1K(i) (OLYMPIC)
34Preview of Review Problem 1I Lawyering
(Badlands)
- Client M owns Mall
- Tenant ES outlet store for co. accused of using
sweatshop labor overseas - Prior O allowed protestors to hand out leaflets
(w these accusations) near ES store. - ES complains protestors drive away customers.
- M wants to know if she can do more to satisfy
ES.
35Preview of Review Problem 1I Lawyering
(Badlands)
- M wants to know if she can do more to satisfy
ES. - Keep specific client request in mind
- Two problems that occurred in exam answers
- Qs going to whether M should drop ES as a tenant
- Outside scope of request (can she help, not
should she) - Could be relevant to different Q.
- BUT really more business than legal (would need
detailed cost revenue info to do financial
cost/benefit analysis)
36Preview of Review Problem 1I Lawyering
(Badlands)
- M wants to know if she can do more to satisfy
ES. - Keep specific client request in mind
- Two problems that occurred in exam answers
- Qs going to whether claims about ES are true
- Legal relevance to your clients concerns?
Qable - Factual How find out if claims are true?
- Send associate to Indonesia or Moldova to
investigate? - Client wont pay for!!
37Preview of Review Problem 1I Lawyering
(Badlands)
- FOCUS OF CLASS DISCUSSION THURSDAY
- Legal Research to Establish the Overall Legal
Framework - Legal Factual Research Relevant to
- How the Mall Normally Handles Free Speech Access
- The Operation and Effects of These Protests
(Including Targeting a Business Operating in the
Mall)
38Property Open to the Public the Right to
Exclude
- Generally Your Moneys No Good Here
- Free Speech Rights
- JMB (including Schmid) DQ 1.24-1.28 (OLYMPIC)
- PREVIEW OF PROBLEMS FOR THURSDAY
- Review Problem 1I (BADLANDS)
- Review Problem 1K(i) (OLYMPIC)
39FINAL EXAM QUESTIONSChoose Three of Four
- XQ1 LAWYERING
- XQ2 SHORT ANSWERS (Choose Three of Four)
- XQ3 OPINION/DISSENT
- XQ4 TRADITIONAL ISSUE-SPOTTER
40FINAL EXAM QUESTION 4ISSUE-SPOTTER
- Long Fact Pattern
- Generally Two to Four Major Subjects
- At Least One Statutory Issue (Saw Already in Rev.
Prob. 1K(ii))
41FINAL EXAM QUESTION 4ISSUE-SPOTTER
- Relevant Skills Include
- Recognizing Relevant Legal Issues
- Identifying Most Important ( Most Contested)
Topics Making Best Arguments for Each Party - Recognizing Significance of Facts in Problem
- Presenting Analysis in Organized Way
- Working with Relevant Statutes
42PREVIEW Review Problem 1K (Part i) (OLYMPIC)
Part of 2014 XQ4 (Issue-Spotter)
- Additional Helpful Facts
- Mckain Medical School (MMS) is a private
accredited medical school associated with a
mainstream Protestant denomination. - It is located in a small city in Gaidian.
- Wayne is General Counsel for MMS
-
43PREVIEW Review Problem 1K (Part i) (OLYMPIC)
Part of 2014 XQ4 (Issue-Spotter)
- Assume the state of Gaidian follows JMB and
Schmid. Discuss the extent to which MMS can
limit Father Franks access to its courtyard. - Instruction Raises Two Qs
- Can MMS Exclude FF from the Courtyard Completely?
- Assuming MMS Must Allow FF Access, What
Restrictions May the School Place on FFs
Activities? -
44PREVIEW Review Problem 1K (Part i) (OLYMPIC)
Part of 2014 XQ4 (Issue-Spotter)
- Assume the state of Gaidian follows JMB and
Schmid. Discuss the extent to which MMS can
limit Father Franks access to its courtyard. - Can MMS Exclude FF from the Courtyard Completely?
- Assuming MMS Must Allow FF Access, What
Restrictions May the School Place on FFs
Activities? -
- Identify as many relevant facts as you can from
the problem and be prepared to discuss how they
might affect the result. - Task I will give you a fact from the problem
ask you to tell me how you would use the fact to
support an argument about one or both of the two
questions above.
45Chapter 2 The Eminent Domain Power the Public
Use Requirement
- Federal Constitutional Background
- Deference, Rational Basis, Heightened Scrutiny
- The Fifth Amdt, Eminent Domain Public Use
- Limited Federal Review Under Berman Midkiff
- State Public Use Standards
- Kelo Beyond
46Hawaii Housing Authority v. Midkiff
- Background Berman v. Parker
- Challenged Hawaii Program
- Midkiff Analysis Adoption of Rational Basis
Standard
47Background to Midkiff Berman v. Parker
- DC Urban Renewal Project
- Fixing Blighted N-hood
- Forced Sales of Buildings to Private Redevelopers
48Background to Midkiff Berman v. Parker
- DC Urban Renewal Project
- US SCt. approves as Public Use a transfer of
land from one private party to another - Gives deference to plan of US Congress
- Once purpose w/in Congr. authority, Congr. can
choose means to implement (incl. EmDom) - Essentially reads public use to mean benefits
the public
49Hawaii Housing Authority v. Midkiff
- Background Berman v. Parker
- Challenged Hawaii Program
- Midkiff Analysis Adoption of Rational Basis
Standard
50Midkiff Challenged Program
- Perceived Problem Market for Land Skewed
- Immense landholding by few owners (top of S22)
- Yields high prices few transactions
- Many lease who want to buy
- Govt partly responsible tax consequences
discourage sales
51Midkiff Challenged Program
- Perceived Problem Market for Land Skewed
- Immense landholding by few owners (S22)
- State Wants More Active Land Market
- Affects Labor Market
- State Prefers Owners to Renters
- Usually More Investment/Upkeep
- Usually Greater Ties to Community
52Midkiff Challenged Program DQ2.04
- Program Designed to Aid Land Market
- Forced Sale of Land Landlords to Tenants
- In practice, funds come entirely from Tenants.
- Requirements/Limitations
- Sufficient of tenants apply from same
residential development. - Public Hearing re furthering purpose of program.
- Eligibility Requirements for Buyers to prevent
misuse by commercial developers.
53Midkiff Challenged Program DQ2.04
- Program Forced Sale of Land (Landlords to
Tenants) - DQ2.04 Relation to Purposes of EmDom Public
Use? - (1) Avoids Transaction Costs
- Breaks negotiation deadlock
- Allows sales that might take place if no tax
consequences
54Midkiff Challenged Program DQ2.04
- Forced Sale of Land Landlords to Tenants
- DQ2.04 Relation to Purposes of EmDom Public
Use? - (1) Avoids Transaction Costs
- (2) How Public Use?
- End Users Private Individuals
- Not Everyone Eligible Relatively Few Directly
Benefit - Public Cant Actually Use Parcels in Q
55Midkiff Challenged Program DQ2.04
- Forced Sale of Land Landlords to Tenants
- DQ2.04 Relation to Purposes of Eminent Domain
Public Use? - (1) Avoids Transaction Costs
- (2) How Public Use?
- End Users Private Individuals
- Not Everyone Eligible Relatively Few Directly
Benefit - Public Cant Actually Use Parcels in Q
- BUT Arguably All Hawaiians Benefit (Directly or
Indirectly) from Improved Land Market
56ACADIA DQs 2.06-2.07(a)
Acadia Sunrise
57Midkiff Challenged Program DQ2.06 (Acadia)
- After the American Revolution, the colonists in
several States took steps to eradicate the feudal
incidents with which large proprietors had
encumbered land in the Colonies. Courts have
never doubted that such statutes served a public
purpose. --FN5 (S24) - DQ2.06 Assume Justice OConnor (OCR) got this
info from the briefs of the State of Hawaii or
of one of the Amicus Curiae supporting the
state. - Why would the lawyers use valuable space in their
briefs to give the Court a history lesson?
58Midkiff Challenged Program DQ2.06 (Acadia)
- DQ2.06 Why would lawyers use valuable space in
briefs to give the Court a history lesson? - Meaning of Land Reform in 1984
- Practice of Leftist Govts in Latin America
- Redistributing Land Rights from Large Owners to
Peasants/Small Farmers - Generally Opposed by Reagan Administration
59Midkiff Challenged Program DQ2.06 (Acadia)
- DQ2.06 Why would lawyers use valuable space in
briefs to give the Court a history lesson? - Cf. Latin American Land Reform in 1984
- Lawyers Providing Another Way for SCt to See
Program - Evidence that OCR Buys Characterization
- (S21 2d para) feudal land tenure system
- (S24 middle para) The people of Hawaii have
attempted, much as the settlers of the original
13 Colonies did, to reduce the perceived social
and economic evils of a land oligopoly traceable
to their monarchs.
60Midkiff Challenged Program DQ2.06
- (S24 middle para) The people of Hawaii have
attempted, much as the settlers of the original
13 Colonies did, to reduce the perceived social
and economic evils of a land oligopoly traceable
to their monarchs. - Statue of King Kamehameha
61Hawaii Housing Authority v. Midkiff
- Background Berman v. Parker
- Challenged Hawaii Program
- Midkiff Analysis Adoption of Rational Basis
Standard
62Midkiff Adoption of Rational Basis Test
- Upholds Hawaii Program Again Interprets Public
Use to Simply Mean Benefit to Public - Extends/Explains Berman v. Parker in Two Ways
- Same deference given to states as feds
- Govt never has to possess land itself
- No apparent limit to public use given for either
1 or 2 - Makes very clear it doesnt want to assess wisdom
of program. - Role for reviewing court is extremely narrow
- Clear use of Rational Basis test
63Midkiff Adoption of Rational Basis Test Key
Language
- Court will not substitute its judgment for a
legislatures judgment as to what constitutes a
public use unless the use be palpably without
reasonable foundation. (S24 top para) - Where the exercise of the eminent domain power
is rationally related to a conceivable public
purpose, the Court has never held a compensated
taking to be proscribed by the Public Use
Clause. (S24 first full para)
64Midkiff Adoption of Rational Basis Test Key
Language
- Rationally Related Very Deferential Standard
- Of course, this Act, like any other, may not be
successful in achieving its intended goals. But
whether in fact the provision will accomplish
its objectives is not the question the
constitutional requirement is satisfied if ...
the ... state Legislature rationally could have
believed that the Act would promote its
objective. (S24 last para)
65Midkiff Adoption of Rational Basis Test
- BACK TO DQ2.05 Why shouldnt the Supreme Court
strike down a state exercise of Eminent Domain
that is unlikely to achieve its stated ends? - The weighty demand of just compensation has
been met (S26) - Reasons for Deference Weve Already Discussed
- The legislature, not the judiciary, is the
main guardian of the public needs to be served by
social legislation, whether it be Congress
legislating concerning the District of Columbia
... or the States legislating concerning local
affairs.... This principle admits of no exception
merely because the power of eminent domain is
involved.... - --(S23 first block quote from Berman)
66(Acadia) Application of Rational Basis
TestDQ2.07(a) to Facts of Midkiff
- Purpose of Program?
- Legitimate? (Connected to Health, Safety,
Welfare, Morals) - Program Rationally Related to Purpose?