Today: Crito and Apology

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TodayCrito and Apology
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• From the syllabus
• Arrive on time and remain until the end of class
  getting up and walking out of class in the middle
  of a lecture is both distracting and
  disrespectful. 

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What does Socrates care about?

• Cares
• Wisdom
• Truth
• Examined life
• Virtue

• Doesnt care
• Wealth
• Reputation
• Material concerns

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• After reading the Apology, on which side would
  you put
• the verdict of the majority at his trial?
• the commands of the legal authorities of Athens?

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• After reading the Crito, on which side would you
  put
• the verdict of the majority at his trial?
• the commands of the legal authorities of Athens?

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The Apology

• Socrates to the jury
• If you said to me in this regard, Socrates, we
  do not believe your accuser now we acquit you,
  but only on condition that you spend no more time
  on this investigation and do not practice
  philosophy, and if you are caught doing so you
  will die

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The Apology

• if, as I say, you were to acquit me on those
  terms, I would say to you Men of Athens, I am
  grateful and I am your friend, but I will obey
  the god rather than you, and as long as I draw
  breath and am able, I shall not cease to practice
  philosophy (29d).

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The Apology

• He disobeyed the order to arrest the ten
  generals.
• He disagreed openly with the oligarchy.

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The Crito

• The Laws to Socrates
• Is your wisdom such as not to realize that your
  country is to be honored more than your mother,
  your father, and all your ancestors, that it is
  more to be revered and more sacred, and that it
  counts for more among the gods and sensible men,
  that you must worship it, yield to it, and
  placate its anger more than your fathers

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The Crito

• You must endure in silence whatever it
  instructs you to endure To do so is right
  Both in war and in courts and everywhere else,
  one must obey the commands of ones city and
  country. (51b)

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The Crito

• He maintained that he was obligated to obey all
  the laws of Athens.

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Are the Crito and the Apology consistent?

• Possibilities
• Did Socrates contradict himself?
• Was Socrates playing with Crito?
• Did Plato put words into Socrates mouth in the
  Crito?
• Are the two dialogues consistent after all,
  despite initial appearances?

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Attempts to make Socrates consistent

• Perhaps Socrates does not countenance any
  law-breaking in the Apology after all
• no law-breaking in Apology
• Perhaps Socrates does countenance some
  law-breaking in the Crito after all
• some law-breaking in Crito

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No law-breaking in Apology

• Perhaps the Men of Athens proposal is not a
  legitimate legal pronouncement perhaps the offer
  of a conditional acquittal is legally
  illegitimate.

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• Socrates to the jury
• If you said to me in this regard, Socrates, we
  do not believe your accuser now we acquit you,
  but only on condition that you spend no more time
  on this investigation and do not practice
  philosophy, and if you are caught doing so you
  will die

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No law-breaking in Apology

• Perhaps refusing to live by that verdict would
  not be breaking the law.

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No law-breaking in Apology

• Perhaps what the Men of Athens say is not the
  law.
• Perhaps incorrect interpretations of the law are
  not the law after all.

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No law-breaking in Apology

• I should be glad to discuss what has happened
  with those who voted for my acquittal A
  surprising thing has happened to me, jurymen
  you I would rightly call jurymen. (40a)
• As it is, you depart, if you depart, after being
  wronged not by the laws, but by men. (54b)

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• Questions about no law-breaking option
• If the verdict wasnt legal, why not disobey it?
• Theres good reason to think the jurys
  pronouncements were the law.
• There was no written legal constitution distinct
  from what the Men of Athens decided.

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Some law-breaking in Crito

• Perhaps Socrates never said in the Crito that
  breaking the law is always wrong.
• Perhaps he said that you have a choice either
  obey the laws or try to persuade the country to
  change them.

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• You must either persuade your country or obey
  its orders, and endure in silence whatever it
  instructs you to endure. (51b)
• One must obey the commands of ones city and
  country, or persuade it as to the nature of
  justice. (51c)
• Yet we the laws only propose things, we do not
  issue savage commands to do whatever we order we
  give two alternatives, either to persuade us or
  to do what we say. (52a)

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Some law-breaking in Crito

• What might Socrates have in mind when he says
  that one may persuade instead of obey?

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• Civil disobedience
• Resisting a law one believes to be unjust with
  the goal of changing the law.

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• Civil disobedience
• Non-violent
• Public, transparent, open
• Done with willingness to accept punishment
• Done to change some laws but not to attack the
  system as a whole
• Done to benefit society, not oneself

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• Does Socrates continuing to philosophize meet
  these criteria?
• Would escaping meet these criteria?
• If Socrates continued to philosophize, he would
  have been doing something public and for the
  benefit of the city.
• If Socrates had escaped, he would have been doing
  something in secret and for his own benefit.

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Question about some law-breaking option

• Persuade or obey can be read in two different
  ways
• 1. Obey the laws or disobey the laws in a way
  that attempts to get people to change the laws.
• 2. Try to persuade the country to let you do
  what you think is right but if you fail in your
  attempt to persuade, you must obey.
• Which reading is more apt?

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• Another possibility
• Look to Socrates fundamental principles

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Socrates fundamental moral principles

• It is better to suffer wrong than to do wrong.
• One ought never harm others but always try to
  benefit them, no matter what.

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Socrates fundamental moral principles

• Did Socrates commitment to philosophy in the
  face of all opposition benefit the city or harm
  it?
• Would Socrates escaping have benefited the city
  or harmed it?

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What Socrates thinks he deserves

• I have neglected wealth, household affairs, the
  position of general or public orator etc.. I
  went to each of you privately and conferred upon
  him what I say is the greatest benefit, by trying
  to persuade him not to care for any of his
  belongings before caring that he himself should
  be as good and as wise as possible, not to care
  for the citys possessions more than for the city
  itself.

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• What do I deserve for being such a man? Some
  good, men of Athens, if I must truly make an
  assessment according to my deserts. The Olympian
  victor makes you think yourself happy I make you
  be happy. So if I must make a just assessment of
  what I deserve, I assess it as this free meals
  in the town hall.

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• Why do you think Socrates didnt escape?