From last time

1
From last time

• Three kinds of good
• Glaucons claim that justice is good as a means
• ----We act justly to get the benefits of seeming
  to be just
• The ring of Gyges thought experiment shows us
  that we if we can avoid the disadvantages, we
  would be unjust when it serves our interests

2
We need to first discover what justice is

• Socrates Justice is easier to discover in a
  city, then in an individual, so lets discover
  what justice is in a city first, then we can
  better see how justice applies to individuals.
• So they begin to discuss what an ideal city would
  be like

3
The principle of specialization

• People have different natural talents. A well run
  city will have each person do what they are by
  nature best suited for.
• If you work at one task regularly you will get
  better at that task

4

• 372a-372c Socrates describes an ideal city.
• But Glaucon objects.

5

• The first ideal city lacks luxuries, it is a
  simple city.
• Socrates says while the simple city still strikes
  him as ideal, it might be useful to look into a
  wealthy, feverish, city.

6
What new thing do we get with a wealthy, feverish
city?

• WAR!
• We need warriors.
• Following the principle of specialization, these
  warriors need to be those who are best suited for
  the task, a professional army.
• They also need to be trained appropriately.

7
The three classes

• The warriors will be those best suited to be in
  the military class
• But there also needs to be a class of rulers.
  These too will be people best suited to rule
• The city will be composed of three classes
  Guardians, auxilliaries, and producers. Each
  composed of people who are naturally suited for
  their task

8
The upper two classes

• Will live communally, eat together, will not be
  allowed material goods except for their simple
  clothes and weapons.
• Socrates thinks this will help keep the upper
  classes from becoming corrupt.

9
The myth of the metals

• The city will prosper as long as everyone stays
  in their appropriate class.
• Each is to be taught they have a kind of metal in
  their soulsgold for rulers, silver for the
  warriors, bronze or iron for the producers
• They will also be taught that if the metals ever
  mix (if a a non-gold souled person became a
  ruler) the city will perish.

10
Adeimantus objection

• People will not be happy in this ideal city,
  especially the rulers and warriors.
• Socrates responds that these people will
  actually be happiest. But in any case, his
  concern is with constructing an ideal city as a
  whole. It would not be appropriate to give a part
  of the city a happiness that is not appropriate
  to it.

11

• The city is moderate because of a harmony between
  the parts. Each will agree as to who will rule
  and be ruled.
• The city is just because of the principle of
  specialization. Each part performs its natural
  function
• It is because of justice that the city exhibits
  the other three virtues.

12
Justice in the soul

• By analogy, Socrates claims that justice in the
  soul be each part of the soul performing its
  natural function. Reason will rule, Spirit will
  aid reason, and the appetites will be in check
• But in order to say this, he needs to show that
  the soul is divided into three parts

13
The principle of opposites

• No one thing can have opposite properties
• So if the soul at the same time exhibits
  oppostite properties, this shows there are at
  least two distinct parts
• Socrates needs to show reason, spirit, and
  appetite are distinct from each other

14
Reason and Appetite

• I desire to drink, and desire not to drink.
• Appetite desires to drink, but reason can tell me
  not to. (similar arguments can be given for
  hunger, sex etc)
• Therefore, appetite is distinct from reason

15
Spirit and appetite

• Leontious desires to look at dead bodies, he
  gives in to his desire, but feels repulsion at
  the same time.
• This shows spirit can rebel against appetite,
  desiring the opposite. So its distinct

16
Spirit and Reason

• You can be angry at your friend, but reason holds
  you back
• Children and animals are spirited, but do not
  have reason
• Therefore, reason and spirit are distinct

17
Is this argument any good

• Are the examples really examples of opposite
  desires, or conflicting desires.
• Maybe the best way of describing these different
  desires is that they conflict, not that they are
  opposites. The desire to eat ice cream and desire
  not to be overweight are conflicting but not
  opposite desires.

18
Justice and Conventional morality

• Is there any reason to suppose that the person
  who is just in Socrates sense will also act
  justly? The definition of justice does not say
  anything about how such an ideally just person
  will act

19
Individual and Civic Justice

• In the ideal city, only the top class is really
  ruled by reason.
• But would it not be better to have a society in
  which every member is ideally just?
• Maybe this is not practical
• In one sense everyone in the ideal city obeys
  reason, but some do by obeying the rulers, others
  by obeying an internal rationality.