MORALITY SUFFERING

1
MORALITY / SUFFERING

• The Destruction of the Right Wrong

2
What is meant with MORALITY

• Conduct / Behavior
• Good Evil
• Good Badness
• Im not going to tell you what right and wrong
  is.
• Well talk about
• God has created a Standard for morality
• And without God There is no right wrong.

3
PROBLEM OF EVIL

• God is all Powerful
• God is all Good
• Yet Evil exists
• THE OTHER WAY OF SAYING IT
• How can evil co-exist with a God who is all
  powerful and all Good?

4
The Suppression

• Remember
• Its not the lack of evidence, but the
  suppression of it.
• the suppression is rooted in desiring to be
  autonomous.
• WHAT DRIVE PEOPLE AWAY FROM GOD?
• WHY DO PEOPLE STOP FOLLOWING JESUS?
• WHY DO PEOPLE RESENT ONE WAY TO GOD?
• This lesson targets this to its core
• After all, man wants their own Tailor-made
  morality.

5
Recap

• God is a necessary thing
• Many things hang on his existence.
• Evolution arises when an alternate idea must now
  explain the origin of man.
• Not the process or timeline.
• Without God there is no
• ORIGIN, MEANING, ANSWER FOR PAIN, DESTINY.

6
Introduction

• There Must (not should, but has to be) be an
  absolute morality.
• Meaning of absolute.
• The problem of moral relativism.
• Morality reflects truth.
• Seeing the question.
• Suffering drives people away from God.
• No one lives like that.

7
I CAN BELIEVE WHAT I WANT TO

• That is the Goal to rule myself
• There is a way that seem right to a man Prov.
  1412
• When you take God away- you rip away morality.
• Im alright with God as long as I can do what I
  want.
• But when he starts intruding on my fun- Hes got
  to Go!!
• No one really believes that. Otherwise if they
  did, then people wouldnt have any problems with
  pedophilia, rape, torture.

8
MORAL RELATIVSM

• In a morally relative world- no morality is
  superior to any other.
• All morality is equally important and valid.
• You cannot get mad at me for having a different
  morality than you
• my right is my right, and my wrong is my wrong.
• Sounds Good when you are talking about harmless
  things like fornication or white lies
• But what about murders, rape, incest, pedophilia.
  
• How we impose our morality on others, if morality
  is relative.
• s

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Just like truth

• Truth means that which reflects reality
• Remember the qualities of truth.
• Truth is exclusive
• The Law of non-contradiction
• Truth as an object
• All truths are parallel
• All truth is relative. (Its up to the
  individual)
• The moment you stand for something, you start to
  denounce something else. (Truth is exclusive)
• A person that says I embrace all truths still
  reject something.
• What do they reject?
• The Law of non contradiction applies.

10
Different perspective

• Just like the picture of many pictures.
• You have to take a step back.
• Be transformed by the renewing of your mind (Rom
  122).
• With statements/ questions about morality we
  must do the same
• You must look at
• Example how many fingers am I holding up?
• What the question is asking
• How the question is asked.
• What does it assume?
• Every question/ statement assumes something.
• If what they are assuming is the thing they are
  trying to disprove- the questions becomes
  invalid.
• WHAT DO I MEAN? --- There is no truth

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BORROWING FROM GOD

• EXAMPLE No one can write in English.
• When they are attempting to disprove God, but
  then borrow something that belongs to God,
  their point becomes useless.
• Example People shouldnt try to push Jesus on
  me all the time.
• Do you think its wrong?
• How do you know its wrong?

12
BORROWING FROM GOD

• Something is only truly (morality) wrong and
  truly right if compared to an absolute/
  objective/ immovable/ unchanging moral law.
• You can only know Evil when it is compared to a
  standard.
• no God no standard / absolute moral law.
• no absolute moral law Evil is unknowable
• No absolute moral law Right and Wrong doesnt
  exists.
• you have are opinions like the taste of ice
  cream.
• You are trying to disprove that there is a God,
  while using HIS moral law to do so.
• TH MOMENT YOU SAY ITS WRONG, YOU HAVE CROSSED
  OVER TO MY SIDE.
• -ADAM and Eve, only wrong because God said its
  wrong.
• VERY IMPORTANT TO GRASP.

13
MUST BE AN ABSOLUTE MORAL LAW

• There must be a means to measure all of it by.
• No God No Law above all laws.
• People make morality.
• Individual
• Parents
• Society (i.e. states, countries by voting)
• Problem with this
• Every one comes up with their own morality
• Sometimes we are in more than one society at a
  time.
• Whos morality is superior?
• The one we voted for?
• what if we voted for rape?
• There must be a means to measure all of it by.

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No Standard No right wrong

• "The new rebel is a skeptic and will not
  entirely trust anything The fact that he doubts
  everything really gets in his way when he wants
  to denounce anything. For all denunciation
  applies a moral doctrine of some kind and the
  modern revolutionist doubts not only the
  institution he denounces but the doctrine by
  which he denounces it He goes first to a
  political meeting, where he complains that
  savages are treated as if they were beasts then
  he takes his hat and umbrella and goes on to a
  scientific meeting, where he proves that they
  practically are beasts. In short, the modern
  revolutionist, being an infinite skeptic, is
  always engaged in undermining his own mines. In
  his book on politics he attacks men for trampling
  on morality in his book on ethics he attacks
  morality for trampling on men." GK. CHESTERTON
• No standard No true right wrong
• This is not a good thing.
• Your desire to label something to be wrong is
  futile.
• Rape stops being wrong just a bother
• Slavery, Murder, Genocide stops being wrong
  just inconvenient.

15

• ITS A WONDER WHY PEOPLE HAVE A DISTASTE FOR
  SUFFERING
• IF THERE IS NO TRUE RIGHT AND WRONG- WHY BE
  BOTHERED BY IT
• BUT PEOPLE GET BOTHERED BY IT AND WE NEED TO BE
  SENSITIVE

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SUFFERING OF THE INNOCENT

• People leave the faith because of this
• Stories of Pastors / Ministers who left the
  faith.
• A lot of Atheists started this way
• Suffering is sensitive .
• Must be careful to be sensitive and considerate.
• But we must still answer it.
• Your answer depends on the hearer.
• The last topic will cover this in depth.
• There are 3 kinds of recipients.
• Searching (interested)
• Indifferent (uncertain)
• Skeptical (opposed)
• Your answer depends on the person.
• WHY? (1 Corinthians 922) To the weak I became
  weak, to win the weak. I have become all things
  to all men so that by all possible means I might
  save some.

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TERRAIN DICTATES APPROACH

• Some people will ask you because
• They want to poke holes in your logic
• They really want to know.
• Searching- God has a Purpose
• Indifferent- (depends on the degree of
  indifference)
• Skeptical- demands a different approach

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Answering the Skeptic

• Righteous / Innocent by whos standard?
• They dont have a problem if criminals suffer.
• All have sinned, No are righteous, not one.
• Reverse Circular argument (youre saying God
  cannot exist because it doesnt make sense to me)
• If I said the God is real cause the Bible said
  its true youd say its a circular argument.
• But you are saying the same thing.
• Measurement (If you recognize hate, pain,
  suffering, then you must have seen good, joy,
  peace, love- where did that come from)
• How do you know its wrong?
• The only way you know that its wrong is if you
  have an absolute moral standard

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Actual conversation

• An Atheists point
• I see it this wayif god is all powerful,
  then nothing he doesn't want to exist would
  exist.Evil existgod does not want
  EvilThereforegod is not all powerful, or god is
  not real
• --------------------------
• My Answer
• I disagree. And I think it's better stated
  as "the problem of evil".  God is all
  powerfulGod is all goodYet Evil exists. HOW?
  first, your question assumes that The bible is
  true, otherwise you wouldn't be making statements
  about God not wanting something to exist.
  Secondly, Your statement assumes that a moral law
  exists, because a moral standard must be present
  before you can even label anything as Evil.
  Because if there is no moral law then evil is
  unknowable. Now what is your questions?   
• --------------------------------------------------
  
• Basically I boiled it down to your question is
  only valid if God a Moral Law exists. And
  since you are attempting to disprove God, then
  your question falls apart. Now what is your
  question?

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People Dont live like that

• The Humanist museum and its architecture.
• People like statements like you should be able
  to believe what you want.
• But they are not ready for its implications
• Not ready for Pedophiles, rape, murder, incest,
  adultery, torture.
• If I walk up to a school and say I will shoot
  everyone here unless someone can give me a good
  reason why not-
• in a morally relative world, what can you say?
• Can you say its wrong?

21
People Dont live like that

• They want their cake and eat it too.
• They want to be able to says something is
  wrong.
• But they want to say that our morality should be
  up to us.
• You have to choose. Either or.
• Its a contradiction / all truths are parallel
• People know inside, that there are things that
  are wrong.
• you know why cause there are!
• The balloon under the water example. POINT IT
  OUT!
• And you talk to them more and you work through
  it logically and pin them to a corner, so now
  they say you are right there must be a moral
  law, and that law must have come from a being.
  Now my only problem is finding out which being/
  God it is.
• Come next week.

22
Problem of Evil again

• God is all Powerful,
• God is all Good,
• Yet Evil exists.
• Its not as thorny as it initially seemed.
• This statement assumes that a Moral law exists.
  And therefore a God.
• If they are ready for a God then we see the
  missing part to this But God has a purpose

23
Conclusion

• There must be an absolute/ objective/ immovable/
  unchanging moral law.
• There must be a measuring stick
• The alternative is horrible.
• Hitler, Stalin, Mass murders, Serial Killers
• What drives me no longer morality- pursuit of
  pleasure.
• quote from Marilyn Manson)
• The conscience demonstrates that there is a God.
• People live as though there is a God.
• God is a necessary thing.

24
Notes

• Quote What nearly everybody in my lifehad
  misunderstood about Satanism was that its not
  about ritual sacrifices, digging up graves and
  worshipping the devil. The devil doesn't exist.
  Satanism is about worshipping yourself, because
  you're responsible for your own good and evil."
  Marilyn Manson