PLATO VERSUS THE ARTISTS

1
PLATO VERSUS THE ARTISTS

• REPUBLIC 10 IN CONTEXT

2
OUTLINE

• Platos aesthetics in Rep. 10 as extension of
  critiques in Rep. 2 3
• Homer, Hesiod criticised on religious,
  educational grounds
• Mimesis first mooted returns in Rep. 10
• Rep. 10 critique of mimetic painting poetry
  epic and tragedy
• Ontological epistemological grounds
• Psychological and ethical reasons also
• Platos use of/reaction to earlier thinkers
• Presocratics, Sophists, et al.

3
PLATONIC AESTHETICS I

• Inseparable from
• Education
• Ontology theories of being
• Epistemology theories of knowledge
• Psychology
• Ethics Justice
• Politics
• Issues addressed elsewhere in Republic
• Plato addresses legacy of poets Homer, Hesiod,
  et al.
• His intellectual precursors
• Poets seen as teachers of religion, ethics, law

4
PLATONIC AESTHETICS II

• Plato expresses different views on art poetry
  elsewhere
• Phaedrus Plato admires mania of poet
• Apology invokes Achilles as his model!
• Plato is himself a supreme literary artist (and
  knows it!)
• Ion poetry beautiful and true
• But poets/rhapsodes irrational
• Operate under inspiration ENTHOUSIASMOS
• Republic 10 poet imitator only
• No inspiration
• Plato on poetry Curb Your Enthousiasmos

5
PLATONIC AESTHETICS III

• Anticipated and contradicted by other Greek
  thinkers
• Xenophanes c. 570-480 BC
• Heraclitus, active, c. 500 BC
• Protagoras, c. 490-20 BC
• Antilogica said to contain everything in Platos
  Republic!
• But Protagoras sees poetry at the heart of
  education
• Gorgias, c. 480-375 BC
• Democritus, c. 465-380 BC
• Dissoi Logoi - sophistic treatise c. 400 BC
• Ethics
• Epistemology
• Aesthetics

6
Why does Plato banish epic tragic poetry in
Republic 10?

• Cultural issues to be explored
• Centrality of poetry in Archaic Classical
  Greece
• Vehicle for social values, mores,
• History, education, cultural identity
• But also a lot more
• Greece in 400s till largely an oral visual
  culture
• I.e. not bookish
• Literacy a public phenomenon reading aloud
• Paintings, statues, buildings also shape
  reflect public sentiment ideology

7
Homeric poetry in schools

• Recitation of Iliad Odyssey
• Seen as educative
• Religion, lore, ethics
• Herodotus, Plato, Xenophon
• Cf. Aristophanes Frogs
• But criticised early
• Xenophanes Heraclitus
• Iliad very complex in ethics

8
REPUBLIC 2 3 Plato on Homer and Hesiod

• Homer Iliad and Odyssey Hesiod Theogony
  Works and Days

9
Art, Epic Tragedy in Classical Athens

• Theatre of Dionysos

Acropolis, Athens Cf. Pericles Look
on her power and become a lover of the city.
(Thucydides)
10
Athens The School of Hellas

• By 450 BC Athens is imperial power
• Periclean Golden Age
• Funeral Speech
• Thucydides History book 2
• Athens as cultural centre
• Intellectuals
• Sophists/philosophers
• Poets
• Playwrights
• Home of Tragedy and Comedy Aeschylus, Sophocles,
  Euripides, Aristophanes, et al.
• Cultural festivals
• Panathenaia, City Dionysia, etc.

Pericles rules 443-29 BC
11
Athens Home of Socrates

• The self-professed gadfly of Athens
• Denounces
• Pericles
• Tragedy
• Rhetoric
• Democracy
• Championed by Plato
• Views presented in Republic and elsewhere

12
Socrates A problem to his city
Death of Socrates, Jacques-Louis David
13
REPUBLIC 2 3 Critiques of Archaic poets

• Book 2 377c-383
• Homer and Hesiod tell salacious stories about the
  gods
• Castration of Ouranos by Kronos
• Kronos cannibalism
• Questionable theology
• Poets wrong teachings re gods actions and
  natures
• Cf. Xenophanes on Homer and Hesiod
• Stories affect listeners shape their soul
• Power of poetry one of its problems for Plato
• Recurs again in Republic 10
• Must be censored (even if true! Rep. 378b)

14
Saturn (Kronos) Devouring his Children
Rubens
Goya
15
REPUBLIC 2 3 Critiques of Archaic poets

• Book 3 ethical qualms raised
• Achilles vs Agamemnon insubordinate, greedy
• Heroes fear death - bad example for Guardians
• Possible responses
• Allegories of Homeric poetry by Theagenes, et al.
  
• Plato/Socrates assumes depictionendorsement
• Ignores Nestors attempt at reconciliation
• No aesthetic differentiation
• Cf. Democritus and Gorgias focus on emotive
  pleasure of poetry anticipate Aristotles
  Poetics

16
REPUBLIC 2 3 Critiques of Archaic poets

• Mimesis 395b ff
• Poet/rhapsodes performative art
• Violates one-person/one job rule of Republic
• Affects poet and listeners - emotional power
  again
• Fall under its spell
• People become assimilated to characters they see,
  hear
• No aesthetic differentiation again
• But concedes mimesis of good men acceptable 398b
• Plato contrasts with diegesis (prose narrative)
• No meter, harmonies, hyper-stylised language
• implications for Rep. 10

17
REPUBLIC 10 Critique of Mimetic Painting Poetry

• Mimesis now rejected
• Psychology, epistemology, education
• Theory of Forms
• Outlined in books 4-9 of Rep.
• Painting used as extensive analogy for mimetic
  poetry
• Both media subject to Platos
• Ontology
• Epistemology
• Psychology
• Ethics Justice

18
REPUBLIC 10 (595-603) On Painting Poetry

• 598-599 Ontology
• Painting mimesis phantasmatos
• Imitation of an appearance
• Couch example and invocation of Forms
• 600-601 Epistemology
• Painters and poets ignorant, so, too, their
  public
• Operate at 3 removes from truth deceive public
  598c
• User/maker/imitator argument
• 602-3 Psychology
• Painting plays havoc with our senses
• Seductive, erotic, magical language used
• Mimetic art as courtesan (hetaira) to our senses
• Epithumetikon vs Logistikon

19
REPUBLIC 10 (603-607) On Epic Poetry Tragedy

• Psychology
• Meter, harmony, music beguiles us
• Seductive, erotic, magical language used (cf.
  painting)
• Grief tragedy, etc. panders to irrational and
  emotive elements in us
• Epithumetkon implied
• This part is opposite to what is best in us
• Logistikon implied
• But NB the noble lie behind the poltical
  structure of the Republic
• What makes this better than poets lies?

20
(No Transcript)
21
REPUBLIC 10 (605c-607) The Greatest Charge

• It corrupts the best of us (cf. painting)
• NB its emotive power
• pleasure in sympathising with sufferings of
  others
• People assimilate Homeric tragic characters
  behaviour to own lives
• the more you indulge these emotions, the more
  you encourage them
• no cleansing katharis here
• Poets destabilise our psychological order
• Justice Psychological order
• Mimetic poets to be banned (!)
• but encomia to good men allowed (607a)

22
Specific Platonic Targets?
Hector and Andromache, Cf. Iliad 6
Priam and Achilles Iliad 24
23
Specific Platonic Targets?
Sophocles Ajax cf. amphora by Exekias, c. 530
BC
24
SOME RESPONSES

• Plato ignores moments in Homer of heroic
  restraint of emotion Achilles and Priam again
• Gorgias on cleverness of audience (B23)
• recognition of artistic fiction
• Cf. Dissoi Logoi on painting and tragedy
• Aeschines and Isocrates (orators, active c.
  410-350) provide opposite evidence to Plato
• Democritus - other peoples suffering can make
  us count our blessings and help

25
SOME RESPONSES

• Aristotle Platos greatest student and greatest
  critic
• Poetics defends art and poetry
• Aristotle Contemplating Homer (Rembrandt, c.
  1650)